Work on Fromme Climbing Trail

Posted by: earleb

I know. 

Always endless ideas and discussions but very few taking action (not aimed at you directly). If someone wants to see better connectivity they need to do more than just talk about it on a forum.

If there is one thing I learned in my 5 years on the board and 7 years now organizing the Fivers and events is that if someone doesn't step up themselves and push forward what they want, it's not going to happen. To get ANY project done it needs a single champion pushing it forward at every meeting, once the ball is rolling they also need to be involved in keeping it rolling. 

While I was still on the board I walked and marked a line with Digger to connect the BP to the 2nd. It was verbally presented to the DNV back then, but it really hasn't been pushed forward much since then. The current board has had their own projects to push forward and challenges to face, but my point is that if anyone really feels passionate about it they need to step up and take it on.

Seconded.

Posted by: earleb

I know. 

Always endless ideas and discussions but very few taking action (not aimed at you directly). If someone wants to see better connectivity they need to do more than just talk about it on a forum.

If there is one thing I learned in my 5 years on the board and 7 years now organizing the Fivers and events is that if someone doesn't step up themselves and push forward what they want, it's not going to happen. To get ANY project done it needs a single champion pushing it forward at every meeting, once the ball is rolling they also need to be involved in keeping it rolling. 

While I was still on the board I walked and marked a line with Digger to connect the BP to the 2nd. It was verbally presented to the DNV back then, but it really hasn't been pushed forward much since then. The current board has had their own projects to push forward and challenges to face, but my point is that if anyone really feels passionate about it they need to step up and take it on.

For sure talk only goes so far, but the flip side is that putting the idea out there may inspire someone or a few people to pick up the torch and run with it. 

If I could afford to I would give up a lot of my work hours just so I could spend a ton of time building.

Posted by: earleb

Climb not hard enough for you? Follow Dave around, he's got the tech. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2xHl5LnzuA/

Gosh, I hope you meant follow him on instagram...

Posted by: blackfly

Having ridden Fromme for 39 years I can tell you that the mantra was always about "whatever do what was necessary for the up to get to the down".  This meant the service road, which is nice now, but has not always been so.  Yes it is boring.  Yes it is mandatory, but if you wanted to go down, it was either that or push up St. Georges or other (for me for a long time I pushed up Lower Crippler/Oilcan and then went up the road).  Not only the bike but where I parked mandated that route.

The climbing trail is a Godsend.  First, it is not really easy, so long as you are not on an Ebike (not here, folks) and it essentially separates the mountain.  Those that ride the West and those whom ride the East (and obviously park at the parking lot).  I notice a distinct difference in the rider.

No, the climb is not perfect.  I find it a bit long winded and tedious at times.  But if you think about a more direct route, whom among you would envy a 30 degree or 45 degree climb?  And the scenery is nice.  Very lucky that we live where we do.  It could easily be desert.

And the climbing trail eases pressure off of the East side, not only in terms of parking but usage.  I remember not long ago that parking on Dempsey/Braemar was easy, no other people around.  Funny and fast how times change.  

I remember the old days of the tech uphill of Old Buck.  I don't mind the work of the up for the downhill but not at the expense of the downhill.  You want tech uphill?  Try Eagle and go up the Lungbuster.  Tell me how it goes.  Even Burke is much more civil today; at one time babyheads was the coin of the realm and the brutality of the steepness was an afterthought.  And I saw a group of gentlemen in their 60s do it (on hardtails) many years ago.  I couldn't imagine it at the time.  

Related, we have it easy and thanks to all for making the climbing trail happen.  Best thing to happen to Fromme in a very long time.

^This!

I sure would like to know what everyone is riding to think that the climbing trail has become to easy. My daily 60km bike commute to UBC from Lynn Valley keeps me in what I think is good shape and I am on the climbing trail every Sunday AM.

That thing is a BEAST. Even after all this time I still get the angry just before the most welcome decent.  After more than 2 years I still can not clean this trail.

Maybe the bikes of today have made things to easy.

I am still on my 2007 26" heckler without a dropper seat post and it is no picnic to say the least.

3 cheers to Peter M and the crew for this trail.

I would be interested in hearing your perspective after you had a go at it on a modern trail bike.

Posted by: Silk

I sure would like to know what everyone is riding to think that the climbing trail has become to easy. My daily 60km bike commute to UBC from Lynn Valley keeps me in what I think is good shape and I am on the climbing trail every Sunday AM.

That thing is a BEAST. Even after all this time I still get the angry just before the most welcome decent.  After more than 2 years I still can not clean this trail.

Maybe the bikes of today have made things to easy.

I am still on my 2007 26" heckler without a dropper seat post and it is no picnic to say the least.

3 cheers to Peter M and the crew for this trail.

I bet if you took a couple days off the bike during the week, say Wed and Fri, and then hit the climbing trail on Sunday that you would rock it.

The climb is way better now IMO. And from what I noticed there are still loads of sections where you can attempt some nastier options if that is your bag.

Thanks to the build team!

I also have a great appreciation for the climbing route, as it stands now. I respect the challenge that organizers and builders faced with piecing together a route that 1) allows a much different ride flow than was available before, and 2) allows as large a % of riders as possible to be able to use it. The landscape and existing trail network certainly limits the available routes to the top, and every one of the possiblilities would be a compromise.

I think that the recent efforts to fill in some of the tech sections were mainly intended to make the challenge more appropriate for a wider swath of Fromme riders. Even in this thread, we've got everyone from "It's not challenging enough" to "Man, I can't imagine wanting this more challenging". Yet, pretty much everyone here uses that route (and probably enjoys it, to some extent). This just speaks to how effective their route choice is. I can clean the trail, but if I'm knackered it pays to go a bit slower, and if I need a bigger challenge, I try to make it sub-40min. 

The one thing I would gripe about is the addition of soil in areas that are clearly heavy drainage areas. It was mentioned previously, but even in the summer there were soul-sucking mud pits that remained weeks after it rained. I don't think anyone has any fun with that, but even this type of complaint comes with a caveat that it's a learning process. Hopefully those areas can receive some alternate choices for drainage or a different choice for fill, in the future.

Posted by: mammal

I also have a great appreciation for the climbing route, as it stands now. I respect the challenge that organizers and builders faced with piecing together a route that 1) allows a much different ride flow than was available before, and 2) allows as large a % of riders as possible to be able to use it. The landscape and existing trail network certainly limits the available routes to the top, and every one of the possiblilities would be a compromise.

I think that the recent efforts to fill in some of the tech sections were mainly intended to make the challenge more appropriate for a wider swath of Fromme riders. Even in this thread, we've got everyone from "It's not challenging enough" to "Man, I can't imagine wanting this more challenging". Yet, pretty much everyone here uses that route (and probably enjoys it, to some extent). This just speaks to how effective their route choice is. I can clean the trail, but if I'm knackered it pays to go a bit slower, and if I need a bigger challenge, I try to make it sub-40min. 

The one thing I would gripe about is the addition of soil in areas that are clearly heavy drainage areas. It was mentioned previously, but even in the summer there were soul-sucking mud pits that remained weeks after it rained. I don't think anyone has any fun with that, but even this type of complaint comes with a caveat that it's a learning process. Hopefully those areas can receive some alternate choices for drainage or a different choice for fill, in the future.

^This

(except I never made it under 45 minutes, let alone 40! 👍)

For the record, I'm not sure I've ever made 40 minutes, but sometimes I have days where I think it's appropriate to try. I think my record is probably 42-43, but I don't strava, so who the hell really knows. I certainly get accustomed  to not getting passed (ebikes aside), but every now and then I get smoked by somebody... There are some absolute beasts out there, both humbling and inspiring.

Yeah I don't care about the time either but every once in a while I try to clean it bottom to top without putting a foot down. Think I only managed twice so far. Most of the time I just take it easy, take a couple of breaks, and enjoy being in the forest.

Good discussion in this thread. I'm in the bucket of rode-it-once when it was publicly opened and then came back once a year until this summer where it has become much more regular due to #paving (overreaction IMO). It's about a 55-60 minute grind for me from the road, I'm not fast not a strong tech climber, but I definitely enjoy meandering in the woods over the road. I will park on Coleman or the lot and power up Mtn Highway if time is limited, but I've really enjoyed ending rides on Crippler/Digger/Lower Expresso+Pennzoil etc. instead of heading back to the parking lot side.

Rode it again today. Finally managed to clean all the sections. 56 min which isn't too bad for my lack of fitness.

The only really boggy section today was at the first new re-route on D-Maker. The tight switchbacks in there are a bit of mess and if the winter is wet without snow then it going to be destroyed.

While its a long slog especially when compared to the seymour climb. Sure does beat the road and you get the most vertical descent from it.