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Work on Fromme Climbing Trail

Sept. 20, 2019, 10:48 a.m.
Posts: 103
Joined: April 26, 2004

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: taprider


remember the first rule

Don’t talk about Climb Club?

I'm not saying ;-)

and Trailforks won't say either by flagging (private view only) my ride logs

Sept. 20, 2019, 12:03 p.m.
Posts: 3
Joined: Sept. 9, 2019

Posted by: craw

Posted by: taprider

Posted by: LoamtoHome

Why was it built like that in the first place? Was it even approved by the Land Manager? Did the NSMBA build it without permission?

I've always liked taking the road up... less effort and way faster than the climbing trail.

it was that way in the first place because it was using existing trails (Peugeot Skid Road Network which were the original green routes for downhill direction in the 1980s)

but please don't decommission all the original A lines for climbing, many of us still get most of our thrills from Uphill Freeriding (ala Chris Akrigg), such as many of you wouldn't like it much if more of the heritage downhill technical features on Ladies are removed

It's a straight up technical/metabolic challenge. It's definitely not about efficiency of vert gained and I definitely don't hit it every time I go to Fromme.

It's easier than it used to be. Some of the trickiest bits have been well smoothed out (i.e. that steep chundery section right after the intersection with the BP). I've nearly cleaned the whole thing but then I lose some fitness or get distracted by life or whatever and have to start the process all over again. I like it this way even though I continue to loathe the rib cage section but maybe that's just because I'm not fit/capable enough to really nail it after climbing everything up to that point.

What would really be a great addition to Fromme would be a short climbing trail from the BP to the second switchback, somehow avoiding the VanTan club to allow for easier laps of the Expresso and Ladies.

That was pretty much my main point in the OP; please don't decommission all the A lines. The best aspect of that route was the technical/metabolic challenge and especially the chundery section you mentioned LTH. I'm bummed that got smoothed all out. I'm glad you can still ride some of the old lines on the skid road at least. It doesn't really matter anyway though, with all the rain the new gold sections will turn to mud (as is happening now) and wash away eventually, leaving some new challenges...

Sept. 20, 2019, 1:02 p.m.
Posts: 955
Joined: June 26, 2012

The climb route has gone from a once-in-a-while feat of extreme endurance and skill to something I'm likely to ride on any given ride. I'm a fan of the current direction.

Sept. 20, 2019, 1:22 p.m.
Posts: 103
Joined: April 26, 2004

^ you can have both

just don't decommission the A lines

Sept. 20, 2019, 2:44 p.m.
Posts: 1697
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Syncro, the yellow routes are the climb trail idea? Straight up the center, up the contour face with no switchbacks? That would be a huge cardio challenge, sign me up.

 Last edited by: Brocklanders on Sept. 20, 2019, 2:49 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Sept. 21, 2019, 8:19 a.m.
Posts: 299
Joined: April 15, 2017

That route would be an excellent addition to the existing networks. I’d like to see the weird janky ending on the Dempsey Connector rerouted to come out nearer the Fromme entrance gate, it would be a great green run for lower level traffic to link both sides of the mountain. 

Currently the DNV/parks generally considers this work to be within their wheelhouse but it’s obvious to see that the NSMBA can build and maintain these trails - Good Sir Martin is an example of how a premier trail can be constructed by dedicated builders and sustain massive amounts of traffic. This is where emailing dnv to get this going is paramount. Political movement/will comes from grass roots activism.

Sept. 21, 2019, 1:53 p.m.
Posts: 679
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Brocklanders

Syncro, the yellow routes are the climb trail idea? Straight up the center, up the contour face with no switchbacks? That would be a huge cardio challenge, sign me up.

Yeah, the idea somewhat follows what craw mentioned. It's just a line scrawled in with Paint.

- the basic line gets you back up to the meat of the lower Fromme trails - Ladies, Expresos, etc and access to Leppard, Crinkum, Kirkford
- the offshoot to the east lets you get in a Skull loop or back towards the parking lot and a finish on Bobsled or Floppy Bunny instead of BP all the way
- the offshoot to the west gets you back up top with far less road riding and makes use of existing trailbed

The main line up the centre would have switch backs to deal with the grade, some would be tight and some would be more open. It would have tech sections and paved sections. Overall it would be a challenge, but something that most people who could do the road up from the yellow gate to 7th in 45 minutes or less could manage. Think of a nice combo of challenge sections and recovery sections. For fun there could be some switchback shortcut sections to help make your heart exlode if that's what your after. The nice thing is you then have three approaches to get up Fromme, road, this new climbing route and the current No Quarter route, part of which could be incorporated to get to the BP and the bottom of Expresso. A huge advantage for everyone - residents, hikers and bikers - is the ability to take advantage of parking opportunities along Dempsey including a lot under the power lines where no trees would need to be cut down. This would spread out traffic all across the bottom flank of Fromme instead of having most of it sequestered by the lot on Mtn Hwy.

ps - updated the map a bit

 Last edited by: syncro on Sept. 21, 2019, 3:58 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Sept. 21, 2019, 3:53 p.m.
Posts: 37
Joined: March 28, 2018

God yes please

Sept. 21, 2019, 7:12 p.m.
Posts: 108
Joined: March 1, 2017

I'm sad enough to find entertainment in being overtaken on what is now called Skid Road Ascent, yet 'somehow' beat the rider to the top of the full climb. it's worth it for the double-take / look of slight bewilderment when they get to the top and I'm half way through a Clif Bar ;) (I just push up the skidder from BP to the bottom of D'yer Mak'er)

Sept. 22, 2019, 9:58 a.m.
Posts: 19
Joined: Aug. 16, 2018

the climbing trail is better than ever and frankly those who are complaining give me the mental image of a bunch of spoiled entitled brats.  sure saying this won't earn me any friends on here but no fucks are given.

think about how many hours of work have gone into this trail over the past 5 years.  think of all the blood sweat and tears. 

think about how much better it is than the boring road climb (give me a fucking gun to end it). 

think about how some of you are complaining about a 10-20 m loss in vertical, on the rolling break section.  who cares.  if you have any fitness it's only 10-15 mins longer than the road.  and instead of a boring road climb you've been on single track the whole time.

i guess the need to save 10-15 mins on the climb is the same need that drives people to e-bikes.  all about the descent.

the Fromme climb is one of the best trails on that mountain, excluding the old-school classics like Ladies, etc.  without a doubt the best trail improvement on Fromme in the past 15 years.  unless you like riding blown out too tight switchbacks of Espresso (meh).

downvote me to oblivion now please

Sept. 22, 2019, 10:10 a.m.
Posts: 679
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: oldmanbuilder

i guess the need to save 10-15 mins on the climb is the same need that drives people to e-bikes.  all about the descent.

People are actually saying the opposite, they're complaining that it's been made easier and isn't enough of a challenge anymore.

Sept. 22, 2019, 10:37 a.m.
Posts: 932
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: oldmanbuilder

i guess the need to save 10-15 mins on the climb is the same need that drives people to e-bikes.  all about the descent.

People are actually saying the opposite, they're complaining that it's been made easier and isn't enough of a challenge anymore.

Is it wrong to be all about the descent?

Sept. 22, 2019, 11:20 a.m.
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb. 13, 2016

Wow this thread is drifting all over the place but that makes it all the more interesting!

I love the idea of a steep, direct push up / double black cardio workout for those that can do it.  Being an “all about the descent” 50 something who is not ready to surrender to an ebike just yet but is just looking for the fastest human powered way up the mountain (especially for a second lap) I would be very happy to ‘hike a bike’ large sections if it got me there faster. In fact I’ve been known to do just that but still haven’t found a route link up that doesn’t either meander too much or involve significant bushwhacking.

I have nothing against the existing climbing trail: the more options the better IMO, and have nothing but kudos for the trail builders and maintainers.

Sept. 22, 2019, 10:24 p.m.
Posts: 632
Joined: March 25, 2011

IF you go from the tennis courts, it's actually faster on the climbing trail, compared to climbing up to BP and going to the road.  I've compared, others as well.  At similar efforts it' about 5 min faster.  That was last year before some sections were altered.  It's not much, and might differ depending how much you actually like climbing!

And who's the f8ck twit that sharpie #paved on one of the climbing route signs?  Way too much entitled middle age men passive aggressive bravado BS around here these days ;)

Sept. 22, 2019, 11:22 p.m.
Posts: 648
Joined: May 11, 2018

My wife and I Argue about this all the time. When there is a part on a climb trail that we can only clean sometimes that subsequently gets ”gentrified“ she is happy about it and I bemoan the ruination of the challenging bits. I like feeling superior when I do something others cannot. She likes not feeling inferior when she fails. She is a super strong climber and cleans it as often as I do, or more yet she still feels happy when it gets dumbed down. Who's right? I'd say no one but it's my wife, so probably her. 

This all being said, complaining about volunteers  doing trail maintenance is asinine. Unless they are working on the trail you built I suppose. In conclusion, God bless trail builders who create the works of art that are hand cut tech sidetrack climbs (and descents).

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