Work on Fromme Climbing Trail

The Fromme climbing trail is amazing and I can't thank the builders enough for putting the work in to provide access that far up from the tennis courts but what has happened to it in the last several years? Can someone chime in here on why there has been so much work done on it? I understand that there are issues with drainage that may need to get taken care of and general up keep but it seems like every single interesting section/sequence has been filled in or a ride around has been added. I think everyone can agree that the original climb was challenging and when you could clean it, or even clean certain sections, it was satisfying. Some of the work just seems pointless really, like where there was a tricky root section and rocks, it's just filled right in. I would just like to know the reasons for doing all the work in places where it clearly isn't necessary.

For starters it's a route not a trail. It wasn't built as a singular "new" trail top to bottom. It kinda evolved as permission was granted to work on things to upgrade them to being climbable. I was on the board of the NSMBA and pushed hard for the climbing route. My vision that was put forth was a blue level climbing trail and not a double black climbing trail. As very little of the work was fresh new build and put together piece by piece there were sections brought into the route that were known to be more challenging than the end goal but having something is better than nothing. As time has passed the builders have been addressing it bit by bit and bringing it up to grade and closer to the original vision. 

The "tricky" sections were never intended to be tricky. It was never intended to be an "if you can" clean it climber.

Peter unleashed he tireless effort upon N.Q. this year. Did a great job smoothing it out, can't give enough thanks to him and all those who worked on it.

the problem with the climbing trail is that there is too much downhill on it and it takes too much time to climb.  I'm sorry but it's poorly designed as a climbing trail and I'm not the only one who thinks this.

Thanks for pushing for it earleb and thanks for the insight. Good to hear the original vision for the route, makes sense now. Totally agree that something is better than nothing. It is clear there has been a massive effort put into it, and I have even helped myself so I know how much work it takes.

Posted by: LoamtoHome

the problem with the climbing trail is that there is too much downhill on it and it takes too much time to climb.  I'm sorry but it's poorly designed as a climbing trail and I'm not the only one who thinks this.

I am still holding out hope that there will be a new 'finish' to the climbing trail that goes up from the Executioner bench.  I agree that the portion linking the Executioner bench to D'yer Maker (I think it is called Ramble On?) which is mostly downhill isnt great in terms of a good climbing trail.

I welcome the break of Executioner & Ramble On before making the final climb. I think the builders did a great job of linking together sections of multiple trails, at roughly the same level of difficulty, to make a route that is far more interesting than slogging up Mtn. Hwy, if not faster. I don't view it as a "pure" climbing trail like GSM, but more like an XC route that happens to gain a lot of elevation.

Posted by: LoamtoHome

the problem with the climbing trail is that there is too much downhill on it and it takes too much time to climb.  I'm sorry but it's poorly designed as a climbing trail and I'm not the only one who thinks this.

I agree with your statement. 

Approval for "new" trail is nightmare that takes a very very long time. If the board held out for an ideal route of all fresh newly built trail we might all still be climbing the road. 

What the climbing route as it is now isn't the route that might exist in 5+ years. Work is ongoing for permission to make it a better more direct route.

Posted by: earleb

Posted by: LoamtoHome

the problem with the climbing trail is that there is too much downhill on it and it takes too much time to climb. I'm sorry but it's poorly designed as a climbing trail and I'm not the only one who thinks this.

I agree with your statement.

Approval for "new" trail is nightmare that takes a very very long time. If the board held out for an ideal route of all fresh newly built trail we might all still be climbing the road.

What the climbing route as it is now isn't the route that might exist in 5+ years. Work is ongoing for permission to make it a better more direct route.

Why was it built like that in the first place?  Was it even approved by the Land Manager?  Did the NSMBA build it without permission?

I've always liked taking the road up... less effort and way faster than the climbing trail.

Posted by: PaulB

I welcome the break of Executioner & Ramble On before making the final climb. I think the builders did a great job of linking together sections of multiple trails, at roughly the same level of difficulty, to make a route that is far more interesting than slogging up Mtn. Hwy, if not faster. I don't view it as a "pure" climbing trail like GSM, but more like an XC route that happens to gain a lot of elevation.

agree

Posted by: LoamtoHome

Why was it built like that in the first place?  Was it even approved by the Land Manager?  Did the NSMBA build it without permission?

I've always liked taking the road up... less effort and way faster than the climbing trail.

it was that way in the first place because it was using existing trails (Peugeot Skid Road Network which were the original green routes for downhill direction in the 1980s)

but please don't decommission all the original A lines for climbing, many of us still get most of our thrills from Uphill Freeriding (ala Chris Akrigg), such as many of you wouldn't like it much if more of the heritage downhill technical features on Ladies are removed

Posted by: taprider

Posted by: LoamtoHome

Why was it built like that in the first place? Was it even approved by the Land Manager? Did the NSMBA build it without permission?

I've always liked taking the road up... less effort and way faster than the climbing trail.

it was that way in the first place because it was using existing trails (Peugeot Skid Road Network which were the original green routes for downhill direction in the 1980s)

but please don't decommission all the original A lines for climbing, many of us still get most of our thrills from Uphill Freeriding (ala Chris Akrigg), such as many of you wouldn't like it much if more of the heritage downhill technical features on Ladies are removed

It's a straight up technical/metabolic challenge. It's definitely not about efficiency of vert gained and I definitely don't hit it every time I go to Fromme.

It's easier than it used to be. Some of the trickiest bits have been well smoothed out (i.e. that steep chundery section right after the intersection with the BP). I've nearly cleaned the whole thing but then I lose some fitness or get distracted by life or whatever and have to start the process all over again. I like it this way even though I continue to loathe the rib cage section but maybe that's just because I'm not fit/capable enough to really nail it after climbing everything up to that point.

What would really be a great addition to Fromme would be a short climbing trail from the BP to the second switchback, somehow avoiding the VanTan club to allow for easier laps of the Expresso and Ladies.

Posted by: craw

What would really be a great addition to Fromme would be a short climbing trail from the BP to the second switchback, somehow avoiding the VanTan club to allow for easier laps of the Expresso and Ladies.

something like this would be golden

^ HA HA HA

remember the first rule