Wood structures

Re-build a structure or fix trail. We only have 6 trail days per year so a not a lot of time. There is definitely more ROI overall fixing/rerouting trail.
Want structures? Shirk has given the guidelines.

I for one, am very happy with the direction of the trails on the North Shore. Great job by all builders.

For those that want more technical riding, you only need to seek it out. There's no shortage of it.

what black trails have been converted to blue?
and
The OP doesn't come across as an average rider. Apparently North Shore trails are not challenging enough.

For those that want more technical riding, you only need to seek it out. There's no shortage of it.

ARRRGH!…CAN'T KEEP QUIET ANY LONGER---

Old Buck and Bridle Path are just two of many that were originally black diamond.
Almost no one could clean those trails regularily originally, even the super fit racers with trials skills.
And am I an average Shore rider or not? -- I rate myself 8 out of 10 for technical climbing, 7/10 for flat trails with lots of perpendicular fallen logs, roots and rocks, 6/10 for Enduro type downhill, and 0/10 for gap jumps and anything elevated.
So does that make me average on average?

Anyway, the point is that many people want technical challenges without consquence of injury,
so that means riding trails that are slow speed and without the chance of long falls, but with lots of small natural technical features or even low constructed features for challenge.

In the old days mountain biking was like scoring golf, in that success on a trail meant you put your feet down less times than before, and the favourite trails were the ones you would be mainly 80% to 90% on, but you could sometimes get the next 10% on a very lucky day.

The way it appears trails are being developed now is that green trails are easy as sidewalks 100% of the way (and very high speed). Blue trails are still sidewalk smooth (and fast), but have rollers, pumps and berms, and that now the real challenges are high consequence (trying to double the rollers and go fast enough to lean your bike horizontal in the berms). I miss the good old fashion log stacks or helper rocks to cross a trees that just fell across the trail (fallen trees seem to be cut out immediately now and it seems pointless to have placed a helper rock at all)

Yes there are still lots of trails where I can get my 9/10 technical climbing challenge and 8/10 flattish grade with lots of low natural challenges, but the majority now require riding the "wrong way" or are "off the map" and can require bush whacking into secret entrances.
But I don't see that as a very positive way of riding from a political point of view.

I find it interesting that the folks defending the blue/black conversion all seem to work for/with TAP or the NSMBA. So…maybe woodwork lovers should get involved , or maybe TAP isn't reflecting what riders want. (Though it's probably both)

I find it interesting that the folks defending the blue/black conversion all seem to work for/with TAP or the NSMBA. So…maybe woodwork lovers should get involved , or maybe TAP isn't reflecting what riders want. (Though it's probably both)

WAIT WAIT STOP THE PRESSES.

Are you coming to the conclusion that perhaps if you want to affect the outcome one should actually get involved?

This is a new revelation. I don't think anyone in any of these dead horse threads has EVER said that before.

Ground breaking stuff.

WAIT WAIT STOP THE PRESSES.

Are you coming to the conclusion that perhaps if you want to affect the outcome one should actually get involved?

This is a new revelation. I don't think anyone in any of these dead horse threads has EVER said that before.

Ground breaking stuff.

I think I'm also saying TAP should listen to the riders, but if it suits your point of view to ignore that, go right ahead.

I think the long and the short of it is that there is a desire for all types of trails and challenges, from pea gravel highways to very rough eroded messes up and down, flowing a-line style and circus trick style with dorps to falt and everything in between. And it's all good.

Personally, I think the TAP program is accountable to the land managers and those riders/ maintainers/ NSMBA members who are actively involved.

I'm just happy that there are those who are committed to keeping plenty of options available for us freeloaders.

WAIT WAIT STOP THE PRESSES.

Are you coming to the conclusion that perhaps if you want to affect the outcome one should actually get involved?

This is a new revelation. I don't think anyone in any of these dead horse threads has EVER said that before.

Ground breaking stuff.

Tried - use to be a trail leader in NSMBA, far far too political, moved on.

Sorry for starting this rant - as I said it was from some runners comments. Time I let this go. Thanx for listening to my whine. Things will be what they will.

what black trails have been converted to blue?

Espresso. The new version is fun, but not as challenging and doesn't warrant a black diamond rating, in my opinion. Yes, I'm aware that the old line is still there, but that doesn't change that the minimum skill required to ride the trail is now lower (thus why I think this trail should be a blue).

Tried - use to be a trail leader in NSMBA, far far too political, moved on.

Sorry for starting this rant - as I said it was from some runners comments. Time I let this go. Thanx for listening to my whine. Things will be what they will.

What are those runners going to do with your 1 foot wide teeter that's six feet up in the air???

Think that would get added to the Knee Knacker? Time taken off your run for hitting the teeter line?

Espresso. The new version is fun, but not as challenging and doesn't warrant a black diamond rating, in my opinion. Yes, I'm aware that the old line is still there, but that doesn't change that the minimum skill required to ride the trail is now lower (thus why I think this trail should be a blue).

The entrance is still a black diamond. Closer to a double in the wet. The rock roll and the other roll would still be considered a black. Good to have options to take the heat off other trails.

My beginner girl friend was able to ride most of Espresso…. the first 100m may be black but the rest sure isn't. We got to the end and she made the comment "wow.. that's rated black? I thought black was supposed to be hard?". That's coming from a beginner… I'm glad the wood work was left alone at least, gave me something to ride while she took the freeway.

My beginner girl friend was able to ride most of Espresso…. the first 100m may be black but the rest sure isn't. We got to the end and she made the comment "wow.. that's rated black? I thought black was supposed to be hard?". That's coming from a beginner… I'm glad the wood work was left alone at least, gave me something to ride while she took the freeway.

did you ride it regularly before the TAP work?