Why the IMBA hating

Here's some trails that have 10% grades that don't suck:

Gravitron - uh never mind …

sweet sweet gravitron….mmmmmm, tasty

I find it ironic that someone who teaches trail building never built a trail.

^^^who are you talking about?

But because I grew up on the north shore and have always rode here I understand how much of a challenge this is to actually follow the IMBA guidelines while keeping the traditional north shore trail in mind.

BINGO!

Although David Davis from an unpronounceable mountain bike area in Wales says that the terrain there is very similar to here and it is possible to build 'sustainable' trails.

It just takes money and support from the landowners.

there's no way in hell would we have approved a shotgun trailday. it's the busiest trail at the woodlot and receives traffic from every trail on the mountain.

i personally received a call the afternoon before the clinic asking for permission. what on earth was i supposed to say? screw yourselves imba and motsa?

I'm curious, why didn't you guys just say no?
perhaps offered up some alternative places/trails for the clinic to be held?

Other trails and places were suggested, hiked and looked at. They kept coming back to Shotgun.

BINGO!

Although David Davis from an unpronounceable mountain bike area in Wales says that the terrain there is very similar to here and it is possible to build 'sustainable' trails.

It just takes money and support from the landowners.

Sharon, one has to keep in mind that land access and such is a completely different system then here.

BINGO!

Although David Davis from an unpronounceable mountain bike area in Wales says that the terrain there is very similar to here and it is possible to build 'sustainable' trails.

It just takes money and support from the landowners.

I thought we made it clear that given enough traffic and harsh climate, there is no such thing as a trail that is "sustainable" (meaning little to no maintenance). The only way a trail is possible to be sustainable is to put in a level of maintenance that is commensurate with the amount of riding. As Oldfart pointed out, even a trail such as the Trans-Canada Highway needs constant maintenance.

Which again brings me to my first point. It's really easy for someone from some "unpronouncable maountain bike area in Wales" to come and look at Ladies or CBC and say "this trail is unsustainable - it was a bad line choice. My trail back home is still in the same condition as when I put it in." Well, let's see your trail after 50,000 or more bike tires rip through it. Let's see it after a few dozen builders rebuild it to what they think the trail should be, and let's see it after it's been battered by meters and meters of rain and snow and wind storms (and bike tires through all those conditions).

Nothing against this David Davis fellow I only brought up his area as an example. I'm not suggesting he was one of the "foreign builders" who laughed at the original lines cut into the shore.

-m

How do you think those builders feel about local organizations who attended the clinic, and those volunteers who tried to make the best of it but knew it was going to turn out badly?

We hate you all. Especially you, Tom.

I thought we made it clear that given enough traffic and harsh climate, there is no such thing as a trail that is "sustainable" (meaning little to no maintenance). The only way a trail is possible to be sustainable is to put in a level of maintenance that is commensurate with the amount of riding. As Oldfart pointed out, even a trail such as the Trans-Canada Highway needs constant maintenance.

-m

Nothing is 100[HTML_REMOVED]#37; sustainable but there are choices you can make on the route that are better then others.

The majority of trails here were not planned nor were the original builders thinking 100's of people would ride them.

That being said, Ladies is probably one of the better laid out trails on Fromme. The lower part of CBC below the millenium log was planned and requires a lot less work then the upper part which was the original line.

Interesting hey.

If the trail is built with a proper outslope that incorporates grade reversals, grade breaks, the half rule and armouring in the right places it can essentially be maintenance free. There is such a thing as a virtually maintenance free trail, but the lines that we have to work with here on the shore are so old and worn that it's almost impossible to achieve given what we have to work with.

If however it's built on loam, down the fall line, and with sustained periods of 10% plus grade it won't last. And sometimes that's ok. If it's built in forest that will be clearcut anyways in a few years for example. However, if the trail is located in a high profile area with limited space (ie. the shore) it probably isn't gonna fly.

That being said, Ladies is probably one of the better laid out trails on Fromme.

Nope. It's terrible, people should stay away from it.
Nothing to see - move along.

The lower part of CBC below the millenium log was planned and requires a lot less work then the upper part which was the original line.

…but the top part is waaaaay more fun.

This proves that unsustainable [HTML_REMOVED] sustainable ;)

IMBA's idea of trail building is to build easy boring shit. Period. The reason why the BC area is THE BEST PLACE to ride in the world is because the trails here were built without IMBA's bullshit "guidelines". As for the "world renowned trailbuilders coming here and laughing at the original trail lines," well let them go back to their flatlands with 4' wide buff "singletrack" and roll on it with their 29ers and talk about how shitty the trails on the shore are. There's a reason why the North Shore is imitated the world over, and no part of that reason is IMBA.

-m

[golf clap]