Holy Crap I've created a monster!
Some strong opinions voiced but there are a stack of good points raised too.
there's this perception that trail builders from bc love building wooden shit.
Yep there is. Its really strong. Now that I've lived here for a couple of years and gotten into the building scene I do realise that there is heaps more going on but really when the rest of the world thinks BC they think woodwork. Blame the filmmakers.
But they laughed because most of it was unnecessary. If local builders had just originally cut the trail properly then a lot of the work could have been avoided and we could ride on some dirt on certain trails instead of rock highways.
Technically perhaps. But then that which is unique and special would never have been created and I personally think that MTB is richer for what has happened on these three mountains. Yes it has created some additional requirements in terms of trail maintenance but its a price most local builders seem willing to pay.
Actually, they have a certain point. When I first rode the shore I was horrified at some of the erosion that I saw but its getting fixed up, trails pretty much aren't being built like that anymore and some of the worst old lines are blending back into the forest.
Give them a chance. Give Mark your feed back on what you thought went well and what you thought didn't. There is no way somebody can fix what you think they are doing wrong if they don't know. firstname.lastname@example.org
This is true. I think Mark is a pretty impressive bloke who does a massive amount of good work for MTB and he deserves some respect.
oh and Straya. what kind of specific north shore building techniques were you looking for? Check out imba's book Trail Solutions along with the whistler trail building guidelines. Those two pieces are a really good starting point.Cavan
Thanks mate. I should clarify that it was someone else asking the question. I have the book and standard myself already and they are excellent IMO. Some of the locals around here have been good enough to show me a heap of stuff too which I am very grateful for.
A better solution would have been to call a week in advance and ask to walk the trail with local builders. There are spots on the trail they worked on that could have benefited from a big crew of people and we could have pointed those areas out. From the sounds of it, everybody just drove to the top of the trail, parked their vehicles there, and went nuts.
This sounds to me like the crux of the whole situation. A little bit more time beforehand and some communication with the locals can prevent a lot of headaches later on.
IMBA's idea of trail building is to build easy boring shit. Period. The reason why the BC area is THE BEST PLACE to ride in the world is because the trails here were built without IMBA's bullshit "guidelines". There's a reason why the North Shore is imitated the world over, and no part of that reason is IMBA.-m
That's the problem with you Matt, too wishy washy and always sitting on the fence :)
Would someone please erase this retarded bashing thread!
As I said earlier there have been some strong opinions voiced but some good things said as well. Some people are not a fan of organised groups and do their own thing. I would not be surprised if some people would try and pick holes in an organised IMBA day even if the work done was exemplary. Its just the way things are. Others however can voice their opinions in a calm way so that things can be done better next time (eg Robot below) so that's why I haven't killed the thread. If it gets worse I'll nuke it but hopefully good things can come from this.
i still support imba's poltical position as an advocate for mountain bikers. i'm not sure i can support trail building clinics in areas that i'm involved with directly.
And I have to say that I have to completely agree with IP FreeLee's post. It seems as if everyone is jumping on the IMBA bashing band wagon here. I even think we may have found something people hate more than slow people on a-line.
I think most people can recognise that IMBA does a fantastic job worldwide on a heap of matters.
Its just that the shore is a special case. Like I might have mentioned both times I've done one of their clinics IMBA people have been very specific about stating that the shore and shore building is a special case and haven't tried to claim that know everything about it. Coming to the home of this kind of thing was always going to be a tough gig.
Otherwise a few other comments.
Those traildays are, as far as I can tell, designed to cater to people without a heap of experience. Mega experienced locals are probably not going to get a whole lot out of it around here as the usual emphasis of IMBA stuff is more on other kinds of riding. Having said that in an ideal world it would have been good to have some locals around and have them provide a higher level of input and instruction than might otherwise happen during a standard IMBA trailday. Next time hopefully.
The Whistler standard thing. I think the reason its trotted out so often is because its pretty much the only one out there (This is apart from the fact that its excellent). When people are dealing with land managers they need formal standards etc to deal with liability as Enduramil pointed out so out comes the Whistler standard. Unfortunately the library for that kind of document is pretty small. Hopefully it grows.