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Why the IMBA hating

Dec. 15, 2008, 12:53 p.m.
Posts: 8242
Joined: Dec. 23, 2003

i have no problem with you standing beside imba in this debate BUT…

if you're talking about my response to the recent trail clinic, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. i've done the paperwork, spent hours on e-mails, built websites, organized trail days, and sunk 1000s of hours building and maintaining area trails. ask around about volunteer dedication and long-term involvement for the area in question before you spout off again about this specific instance. local builders should've had a REAL say in what went down on the trails they built, and that didn't happen. we definitely didn't build the line to become a repository for poorly-informed trail building clinics.

our complaints are legitimate and well-documented because the work falls far short of being acceptable, given the long-term trail building efforts that have been made in the area, and paid reps for an international biking organization should be held to task for shitty work, just like unpaid volunteers would be.

the internet is a great leveller in that it allows people and groups with extremely limited budgets to publicize instances where they feel agrieved. that's what's going on here. i'll agree that there's a bunch of garbage posts in this thread, but it's pretty easy to filter the wheat from the chaff.

we have never met, but i think i have crush on you.

Dec. 15, 2008, 12:57 p.m.
Posts: 8242
Joined: Dec. 23, 2003

If 20 or 30 people have read this thread and then choose to not support IMBA with a membership, or not show up at a club's trail day due to fears it could be lame or teaching bad techniques, then how has this been productive?

maybe, just maybe IMBA needs to "adjust" their M.O.

Dec. 15, 2008, 1:06 p.m.
Posts: 133
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

maybe, just maybe IMBA needs to "adjust" their M.O.

not only that, but if they are representing us at a provincial level and can't even do work that is to the standard expected and required by local conditions and clubs, then what exactly are they accomplishing on our behalf? Just because you are the international 'authority' does not mean you have exclusivity on knowledge and technique, especially given local knowledge and standards that seems to trump them in this instance….

….and for the record, I'm a big advocate of their more general access work in the world, have been for years and think they do an outstanding job in that vein….but organizations need to look at their activities critically and determine if they can be done better, and I think this outlet will help them refine procedure and hopefully improve technique for the benefit of the entire riding community….

Dec. 15, 2008, 1:17 p.m.
Posts: 8256
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

If 20 or 30 people have read this thread and then choose to not support IMBA with a membership, or not show up at a club's trail day due to fears it could be lame or teaching bad techniques, then how has this been productive?

maybe they'll ask robot if he wants help? Build something cool? Learn better techniques that work around here?

I hear what you're saying, IMBA generally does good work and this is just a bad example that we're jumping all over. Yup, thats the internet

WTB Frequency i23 rim, 650b NEW - $40

Dec. 15, 2008, 1:18 p.m.
Posts: 8242
Joined: Dec. 23, 2003

yea well with me you are preaching to the choir. i did some complaining along this line about 2 yrs ago and everybody told me i was being a whiner..

its like the canaries have come home to roost..

Dec. 15, 2008, 1:41 p.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

not only that, but if they are representing us at a provincial level and can't even do work that is to the standard expected and required by local conditions and clubs, then what exactly are they accomplishing on our behalf? Just because you are the international 'authority' does not mean you have exclusivity on knowledge and technique, especially given local knowledge and standards that seems to trump them in this instance….

….and for the record, I'm a big advocate of their more general access work in the world, have been for years and think they do an outstanding job in that vein….but organizations need to look at their activities critically and determine if they can be done better, and I think this outlet will help them refine procedure and hopefully improve technique for the benefit of the entire riding community….

Agree that IMBA can do good work. Especially in the political and access arena.

In the realm of trailbuilding I think that IMBA has some good idea. But they have to start realizing that there is a huge level of trailbuilding expertise in each region of each province. These are the local builders who are on the trails in their area. They have developed the solutions to the problems.

I think the IMBA trail clinics worked well in the past. But like all things time moves on and knowledge increases. Especially amongst local builders who are incredibly skilled in what they do.

I think that it's time for IMBA to start getting regional reps. These should be the guy's organizing the local clinics. Involving the local builders and when I say involving I mean full participants. Allowing them to share the techniques they have found to work best in their areas.

edit

The other benefit to fully incorporating the local builders into the clinic is that it allows those wanting to help to connect with them. To meet builders and know who they can learn from after the clinic is over.

Because it's from this that the next generation of trail caretakers will take over.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Dec. 15, 2008, 9:55 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: May 3, 2004

I'm not sure on the answer but I do know IMBA has had involvement in the education of builders either directly or indirectly with most lift accessed resorts in north america if not the world.

I strongly disagree with this comment. While IMBA has it's place - advocacy, land access in the US, possibly building XC trails in Colorado - they are way out of their league when it comes to gravity bike parks/trails.

TomPro

Jan. 3, 2009, 1:42 p.m.
Posts: 1
Joined: July 4, 2005

While they were in the woodlot, one of those turkeys put their Subaru in the ditch. Coincidentally near the top of Shotgun. We laughed and rode on through the crowd.

Jan. 3, 2009, 2:45 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Thank you for that most useful comment. An excellent first post. All others should take note and emulate this esteemed person. Hurrah!!

Jan. 3, 2009, 10:01 p.m.
Posts: 503
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Perhaps the Internet isn't a place for you…

considering your earlier words in what should be a mature discussion about trail issues i suggest you heed your own words and take a seat at the front of the class so you can figure out what the deal here is.

I'm not a human in real life, I just play one on the internet. 

Jan. 7, 2009, 10:01 p.m.
Posts: 503
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

I will be helping with maintenance at the Woodlot in the Spring but I know better what I can and can't touch thanks to actually talking with builders from there.

that's always the best approach, try to find out who's responsible for the trail and send them a note before you start any work.

And for those that ask what I built that was torn out. Anyone recall the rickety bridge at the end of hoots? Well, me and two others removed it and put a brand spankin new bridge in. Cleaned up the surrounding area (removed a few jagged rocks, updated drainage, etc) and fixed what was a dangerous liability. I believe a week later it was chainsawed out by another builder…. The reasons for this are unknown to me. I built it with Woodlot builders (however, they did not "own" the trail - but they said no one did so….) and we didn't change the trail dramatically like what was done to Shotgun. We simply replaced a rotted out bridge with a new bridge. We didn't make it into a jump or a roller coaster, it was still the flat, wide, small drop at the end bridge it was before…. Just brand new cedar and nice new spikes.

imo that's just bullshit. if all you've done is replace rotten woodwork and then cleaned up the trail, as long as the work is good quality then NOBODY should be cutting your work out.

I'm not a human in real life, I just play one on the internet. 

Jan. 7, 2009, 10:16 p.m.
Posts: 14540
Joined: Dec. 16, 2003

dirty laundry needs to be washed at home, not here.

people that aren't aware of all the details shouldn't be commenting.

Jan. 7, 2009, 11:19 p.m.
Posts: 503
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

dirty laundry needs to be washed at home, not here.

people that aren't aware of all the details shouldn't be commenting.

yes, cause you've always been most diplomatic when it's needed

:rolleyes:

public trail and public forum, so put on your raincoats and let the shit hit the fan. from what i see so far this guy's got a reason to gripe. if there's some earth-shattering opposite explanation out there that would explain this all away then let's hear about it and i'll step up to say i got a little carried away.

I'm not a human in real life, I just play one on the internet. 

Jan. 7, 2009, 11:54 p.m.
Posts: 417
Joined: Feb. 18, 2006

Hey Synchro, thanks for the back up man but don't worry about it. That ones gotta be let go. Every guy at the Woodlot has every reason to not accept new builders. Those that do though are smarter and more sensible - providing they make sure anyone new isn't just some dumbass. Why not accept help if the person has proven they aren't a liability to the place? Anyways, good thread. Really enjoyed the reading in this one.

DaveM is a hard worker there. I don't know the guy and he's bashed me before for asking to help at Woodlot but you know what, if he keeps the place running like it is then all the power to him. I only offer my experience and time. If they can't accept it, fine, others will.

If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

Jan. 8, 2009, 12:29 a.m.
Posts: 503
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Hey Synchro, thanks for the back up man but don't worry about it. That ones gotta be let go. Every guy at the Woodlot has every reason to not accept new builders. Those that do though are smarter and more sensible - providing they make sure anyone new isn't just some dumbass. Why not accept help if the person has proven they aren't a liability to the place? Anyways, good thread. Really enjoyed the reading in this one.

DaveM is a hard worker there. I don't know the guy and he's bashed me before for asking to help at Woodlot but you know what, if he keeps the place running like it is then all the power to him. I only offer my experience and time. If they can't accept it, fine, others will.

afaik davem is a bit player at the woodlot (but i could be wrong, it's happened maybe once or twice before) but he does know a lot of the key people out there. i find the woodlot scene to be a funny one - some guys are super aggro and don't want any help while others are more welcoming and open. i know one thing for sure, when you've put thousands of hours into a trail network it's easy to get a bit surly every now and then.

I'm not a human in real life, I just play one on the internet. 

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