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Why has Pink Starfish been decommissioned?

July 29, 2016, 2:27 p.m.
Posts: 1
Joined: Jan. 8, 2015

Part of the reason that permits were issued for Pink Starfish and then later rescinded was due to employee turnover at DNV (the former head of DNV recently retired). While the steady barrage of complaints coming from two vocal opponents of mountain biking had probably faded to white noise for the seasoned former boss, it will take time for the new boss to come to their own conclusions. This is why it is important for us to reinforce the message that mountain biking has a positive impact on the community.

Every one of you can help do this by sending an email to the land managers thanking them for supporting us and working with the NSMBA. For every one complaint they receive, they should be receiving ten emails from mountain bikers telling them how wonderful it is to have such amazing outdoor recreation opportunities in our backyard and thanking them for their support. If you want to suggest some areas for improvement, consider putting them in the middle of your email, in between positive comments to reinforce the fact that mountain bikers are wonderful people!

Email addresses for DNV council, DNV mayor, and Metro Vancouver can be found here:

http://nsmba.ca/content/2016-05_send-thank-you-email

July 29, 2016, 3:09 p.m.
Posts: 272
Joined: May 11, 2005

8 pages of comments and finally my question is answered. Thanks MarkJ :) I've also sent a (nice) email to the emails listed.

July 29, 2016, 5:16 p.m.
Posts: 197
Joined: May 13, 2014

Blackfly, I get where you're coming from. You and I are a lot alike. We're both middle aged doomers. We both ride (or used to ride) a 45 or 50 pound Foes Fly circa 2003?? Are you still rockin the Monster T? Those bikes were enduro before there was enduro, just a mere 20 pounds or so heavier, but I digress. And we both like to complain, probably more for sport than anything, sometimes with a propensity for excessive verbosity. I, like you, had some fav TTFs or chunder gnar sections that I once quite liked, but sadly are no longer. I get you man. You and I are like two peas in a pod, lol.

In all fairness, you do have some valid points. BUT, where you and I completely differ is in your bleak post apocalyptic assessment of the future. I have a challenge for you. Go watch some Kidsworx events in 3 weeks and tell me the future is not bright. Not all those kids live in Whistler. Go to Fromme on a Sat or Sun morning and count how many 10 and under riders you see and tell me if you still think the North Shore has no future. Like Cam said, it may not be exactly the future you would have decreed if you were king, but not only is the future alive and well, it's never been brighter. While the past is busy complaining, the future is too busy riding their bikes to even notice, and ripping harder and faster and younger than ever. In our neighborhood, the kids are developing and progressing on the very same worthless good for nothing trails you singled out for scorn and derision-Bobsled, Espresso, 7th, etc, similar story on Seymour.

You say 7th Secret is too easy and not gnarcore enough? Well, try riding it on a 20" or 24". Or Bobsled for that matter. I'm just a no skill perma-noob, but no matter, last time I rode Boblsed at full speed, I couldn't stop grinning. You don't have to take a big turd on trails that aren't your favs to make your case. Everyone knows we'd love to keep some old shore tech as well as hopefully some new advanced options. Figuring out the best way to do that is not always easy.

Soon the future generation is going to be older and stronger and ready for more adventurous lines. Granted, the multitude of choices may not be as plentiful and abundant as in times of yore, or in the style you might prefer, but it's not like we're in Toronto (sorry no disrespect Torontonians), some barren flat wasteland with nary a mountain or hill of consequence to be seen. There are some legitimate concerns and issues, but it seems it's almost definitely not for lack of honest effort. It's pretty evident that a lot of good work is being done by a lot of good people, so I'll continue to support the NSMBA. It is true that the shore will never be quite what it was. Is this good, is it bad, is it the end of the world as know it? I don't know. Change is the only constant. The shore is dead! Long live the shore!

I am only going to respond to this to prove a point. First of all, I am no doomer. I still ride, big bikes, work out 3 times a week and get 2 days of trail maintenance in a month. The trails I ride now are what the Shore should of ended up being, but when the house you are building simply doesn't come together after repeated tries, you move on to a new house. You also forget that when you talk of a bike that is a hardtail with limited travel you forget I am well seasoned in the fully rigid ride. My first mountain bike was a Red Factory Kuwahara BMX bike and then a rigid bike with cantis for years. I am so past he fully rigid ride to prove how hard core I am. And the fact people today can take a bike with a rear axle mounted kid trailer down Bobsled tells me something is really wrong. End of the world? Most likely not, since the Shore is getting so expensive I don't see how families can live there. But the point you miss is lost on most: without the challenge or danger there is NO SKILL BUILDING, and like school, if you don't learn the periodic table or basic algebra there will be no further development, to say nothing of evolution or growth. YOU DON'T GET THIS. You cannot expect growth or skill development on paved trails devoid of not only challenge or risk. Whom said life was easy or fair, or without risk? So we expect life to be fraught with peril but the biking to be easy and all inclusive? Sorry, but when you abase oneself to the expectation of the masses you get the lowest common denominator, that being the least path of resistance, and that is what we see today on Fromme, in particular.

I think too many give Monica the credit that they elude to. But then I harken to the example of Ambleside and fires: it took only one (1) old lady to continually complain to get fires banned for good (but for some reason Farsi folk are allowed to do it once a year when everyone else cannot but that is another topic for another day). So it is not without precedent.

Long live the Shore? What Shore. Do you see people speak of it like they did 15 years ago? The fact they don't is exactly why I am concerned. Just another place to ride. And when people from abroad come here and find that out, what are they going to say when they go home and tell of a completely paved Seventh, groomed Espresso, family (and baby trailer usable) Bobsled. Core Shore?

The Shore still lives, in spirit, in other areas that have not been popularized but it is still around. You might have to drive but you will find it.

On a side note: for anyone thinking Cypress has any hope, give it up now. With all the dirty foreign money coming in ALL of Cypress will be developed, right up to every boundary, so long as the international interest is there. Whatever any group, person or city council tells you is an outright lie. No private landowner is going to turn down development in this hot house market because some bikers think they have a voice. We never mattered and have never been a part of the equation, at least on Cypress, since the trails are on private land. I wish I could be more positive on this but this is financial reality, and when the bottom line is the bottom line, there is no getting around it. Bike trails vrs. profit? Get real….

Time for my ride.

And yes, P_D, I still love my Monster T simply because unlike most things it hasn't broken or blown up. And you would be surprised. We are not two peas in a pod. There are far more like me out there than your comfort zone would like to admit. If you ride Fromme on a regular basis you don't meet them. For good reason.

July 29, 2016, 5:46 p.m.
Posts: 1237
Joined: Dec. 3, 2003

On a side note: for anyone thinking Cypress has any hope, give it up now. With all the dirty foreign money coming in ALL of Cypress will be developed, right up to every boundary, so long as the international interest is there. Whatever any group, person or city council tells you is an outright lie. No private landowner is going to turn down development in this hot house market because some bikers think they have a voice. We never mattered and have never been a part of the equation, at least on Cypress, since the trails are on private land. I wish I could be more positive on this but this is financial reality, and when the bottom line is the bottom line, there is no getting around it. Bike trails vrs. profit? Get real….

I'll leave it to any Cypress builders that met with BPP yesterday to comment on what they think about the future of mtn biking on Cypress.

July 29, 2016, 8:23 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 12, 2007

And the fact people today can take a bike with a rear axle mounted kid trailer down Bobsled tells me something is really wrong.

Last time I heard, there was a plan to have Bobsled four wheel bike friendly for people with mobility issues. But hey, screw those people. 10 year old kids? Screw them too (metaphorically speaking….). Stay inside and play computer games. The mighty Shore isn't for you!

treezz
wow you are a ass

July 29, 2016, 8:53 p.m.
Posts: 985
Joined: Feb. 28, 2014

Blackfly if you want a challenge, go faster. The challenge you are referencing (slow technical trails) is one pov, the other is speed, which is in itself a technical feature. You ride any "flow" trail at the speed of a Barelli and you would shit your pants.

In fact, you are just coming at this from one pov, which is no more important than the person who wants to take a kid trailer down the mountain, as silly as that sounds. And just so we're clear, because you have a strong opinion, doesn't make you right.

15-20 years ago the shore was popular because the stuff that was being done was new and fresh for a mountain bike world deep into xc racing. I get it. But now its largely dead, thankfully. That's just my opinion though, and it doesn't matter.

July 29, 2016, 10:26 p.m.
Posts: 1142
Joined: March 15, 2013

Tech does not always mean hard.
Flow does not always mean easy.

Riding Schleyer on my squish bike and finding the perfect flow / dialed lines is harder than cleaning Empress on my hardtail.

July 29, 2016, 11:11 p.m.
Posts: 1
Joined: July 5, 2015

without the challenge or danger there is NO SKILL BUILDING, and like school, if you don't learn the periodic table or basic algebra there will be no further development, to say nothing of evolution or growth.

I'm generally a lurker on these threads, and have no interest in getting into an internet flamewar. But this claim - that trails have to be exponentially difficult for any kind of learning to occur - is so wrong that I wanted to respond to it.

I started mountain biking consistently around three years ago. It's been a steep learning curve and I'm a classic weekend warrior, but I'm out on the trails every chance I get and working to progress my skills on every ride and I love it all, even when I end up walking my bike down something my courage wasn't quite ready for.

I also turn 40 in a couple of months. I've been through the experience of having a major injury and surgery and spending a year away from the things I loved while I rehabbed. I'm not interested in doing that again.

I'm finally getting pretty capable on blacks. I'm starting to try double blacks. I can't ride everything on them, but the fact I can ride some of it is hugely encouraging and motivates me to keep coming back to things that are beyond my paygrade right now. Each time I ride a feature that I walked the time before it's a huge achievement that encourages me to try something else that I originally thought was beyond me. One day soon I'll be able to link it all together and ride the trail clean. And then I'll ride it faster, and then I'll ride something harder and start all over again.

This is how we progress. This is how people learn to love the sport and become capable of riding the old school gnar. I can't ride much of it yet, but I'm getting there and that makes me so incredibly stoked. Having progressive trails means I can keep working toward that goal.

This Fromme you talk about, where it's all groomed and gravelled and suitable for baby trailers? I don't recognize that Fromme at all. Sure, there are a handful of easier trails as you work your way up to the tough stuff, but I remember riding Seventh for the first time and it sure as hell didn't feel easy then. Now it feels easier but Executioner? Bookwus? They don't feel easy. Maybe one day they will. The important thing is that they're there, I can ride them (and walk the parts I can't yet ride), and be very grateful to the people who built and maintain these amazing trails that have given me so much over the past three years.

July 30, 2016, 6:57 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 12, 2007

Re the whole skills thing:

The Athertons grew up riding glorified sheep trails on the Wales / England border.
Steve Peat had the Peak District. OK, a bit rocky in places but not exactly gnarly.
Danny Hart comes from….Redcar, where basically nothing has ever happened.

treezz
wow you are a ass

July 30, 2016, 8:01 a.m.
Posts: 985
Joined: Feb. 28, 2014

Aaron Gwin learned to ride in southern California. Clearly his skills were given to him by god because it was impossible for him to learn it any way else.

I will go as far as saying that learning to ride slow tech trails builds only one type of skill and that's well… slow, tech riding. Some of the most talented riders on the planet come from areas that are fast and wide open with barely a rock nor root to be seen anywhere - and they can still ride the slow, tech trails.

July 30, 2016, 8:06 a.m.
Posts: 1027
Joined: June 26, 2012

Aaron Gwin learned to ride in southern California. Clearly his skills were given to him by god because it was impossible for him to learn it any way else.

I will go as far as saying that learning to ride slow tech trails builds only one type of skill and that's well… slow, tech riding. Some of the most talented riders on the planet come from areas that are fast and wide open with barely a rock nor root to be seen anywhere - and they can still ride the slow, tech trails.

From an enduro racing perspective, my riding buddies and I do reasonably well at races on the Shore, but struggle to do as well at faster venues like Vedder, Kamloops, etc.

Variety is key to creating well-rounded riders and for a complete riding experience.

July 30, 2016, 3:39 p.m.
Posts: 985
Joined: Feb. 28, 2014

From an enduro racing perspective, my riding buddies and I do reasonably well at races on the Shore, but struggle to do as well at faster venues like Vedder, Kamloops, etc.

Variety is key to creating well-rounded riders and for a complete riding experience.

The opposite is true for me. I hate riding the shore but my results would say I do better there than wide open fast trails. Go figure.

July 30, 2016, 3:47 p.m.
Posts: 3253
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

The opposite is true for me. I hate riding the shore but my results would say I do better there than wide open fast trails. Go figure.

it would be interesting to do some redearch to figure out why that is, why some riders prefer one type of riding over another. i'd guess it has something to do with how our brains are wired and how we interpret/perceive different types of risk.

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

July 30, 2016, 8:39 p.m.
Posts: 34103
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

…and how we interpret/perceive different types of risk…

… and pleasure.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

July 30, 2016, 9:07 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Dec. 3, 2004

I'm sorry but trails that require you to be on your brakes all the time and don't allow you to exceed speeds of 8 km/hr do not build skill. Finally the Shore has some trails that you can actually get up to a proper speed on which IMHO requires more "skill" than skidding down a fall line trail with no corners or "flow". '

PS there are sooooooooo many other places to ride which offer better climbs, views, berms, drops, jumps, flow, tech, gnar what ever the hell you want to call it that since I've stopped riding the shore I do not miss it at all.

Shed head!

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