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Why has Pink Starfish been decommissioned?

July 19, 2016, 4:10 p.m.
Posts: 272
Joined: May 11, 2005

Looks like PS was being revitalized. There was some really nice woodwork on there, and now it's been torn down and the trail has been closed/decommissioned. Anyone know why?
http://www.trailforks.com/trails/pink-starfish/

July 19, 2016, 4:55 p.m.
Posts: 18280
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Problem:

Internet posts, pictures and videos giving the haters ammunition to complain to the land managers who then are obligated to react.

Solutions:

Get off the interwebs and ride your bike and a lot of our troubles go away.

Become a paid member and that gives the association more power when discussing with land managers.

Stop questioning online and come help out in person.

July 19, 2016, 5:01 p.m.
Posts: 2381
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Problem:

Internet posts, pictures and videos giving the haters ammunition to complain to the land managers who then are obligated to react.

really?

Opinion is the lowest form of intelligence. It requires no accountability, no understanding.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live
in another's world. ~ Bill Bullard

July 19, 2016, 7:26 p.m.
Posts: 158
Joined: May 13, 2014

Looks like PS was being revitalized. There was some really nice woodwork on there, and now it's been torn down and the trail has been closed/decommissioned. Anyone know why?
http://www.trailforks.com/trails/pink-starfish/

And I said this would happen.

The hard trails, those that push the boundaries and offer the greatest liability, will all be gone. Why have PS when the masses are used to the low impact, low risk Seventh, Espresso and Bobsled. The powers that be don't want PS of yore back. That is why you saw little maintenance, advocacy and work.

SO where is the NSMBA, Mark Wood et al. in this? Just like the bastardization of Executioner with Bitches Brew: whom asked anyone about the cutting out of the bottom half of Executioner (old line, that I admit was steep but that was the challenge) to "create" what we have now? The rock face roll on the bottom last bit of Executioner was mandatory Shore, and now gone simply because someone thought the "erosive" factor, or most likely, the "liability impact" was too great. North Shore gnarl indeed.

And remember, there is no getting it back. As a maintainer myself, when you see your work (and building ladders, supports etc is no small task) get torn down even before it is finished or used you get to the point of "why bother". This is completely why the Shore is no more and simply a Lululemon playground without any real soul. Those trails of any real meat and significance of character building will eventually either: be dumbed down to the point of no liability; or, removed completely. Sadly, this is the case with most everything once it gets mainstream.

So what of the future.

What of building skill, character and trail development? Where is the new generation that is going to show why the Shore is the best? I bet with a bit of work you could find more core "Shore" trails on Mammoth, or most any other US bike park (including Whistler), but ironically, in a bike park there is an EXPLICIT statement of liability. Thank you all lawyers. The real killers of the core Shore.

You know, in the 34 years I have ridden Fromme from my youth I could not of imagined that it turned into what it is now, and even more alarming, is how accepted it is and expected. And be careful of the demands you make; you reap what you sow. When the riding public all expect easy, flowy, low liability trails, that is what you get. And look at what you have now… exactly that.

I ride elsewhere now, and it resembles what the Shore should have been, but it is sad to see that everything that made the Shore what it is is now being dumbed down, removed or bypassed. Progress indeed. It seems that trail maintenance even includes pounding out rock holes to prevent peoples' feet from getting wet, as if that ever mattered. And I freely admit I cannot ride what did 20 years ago, but what of the upcoming generation? Where is the challenge? Growth? Development? Pushing boundaries? Is this not what building knowledge is based on? But then again, there is no real personal liability there.

So I suppose a resurrection of "Walk in the Clouds" is out of the question.

July 19, 2016, 8:54 p.m.
Posts: 21
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Amen! Rep for you.

And I said this would happen.

The hard trails, those that push the boundaries and offer the greatest liability, will all be gone. Why have PS when the masses are used to the low impact, low risk Seventh, Espresso and Bobsled. The powers that be don't want PS of yore back. That is why you saw little maintenance, advocacy and work.

SO where is the NSMBA, Mark Wood et al. in this? Just like the bastardization of Executioner with Bitches Brew: whom asked anyone about the cutting out of the bottom half of Executioner (old line, that I admit was steep but that was the challenge) to "create" what we have now? The rock face roll on the bottom last bit of Executioner was mandatory Shore, and now gone simply because someone thought the "erosive" factor, or most likely, the "liability impact" was too great. North Shore gnarl indeed.

And remember, there is no getting it back. As a maintainer myself, when you see your work (and building ladders, supports etc is no small task) get torn down even before it is finished or used you get to the point of "why bother". This is completely why the Shore is no more and simply a Lululemon playground without any real soul. Those trails of any real meat and significance of character building will eventually either: be dumbed down to the point of no liability; or, removed completely. Sadly, this is the case with most everything once it gets mainstream.

So what of the future.

What of building skill, character and trail development? Where is the new generation that is going to show why the Shore is the best? I bet with a bit of work you could find more core "Shore" trails on Mammoth, or most any other US bike park (including Whistler), but ironically, in a bike park there is an EXPLICIT statement of liability. Thank you all lawyers. The real killers of the core Shore.

You know, in the 34 years I have ridden Fromme from my youth I could not of imagined that it turned into what it is now, and even more alarming, is how accepted it is and expected. And be careful of the demands you make; you reap what you sow. When the riding public all expect easy, flowy, low liability trails, that is what you get. And look at what you have now… exactly that.

I ride elsewhere now, and it resembles what the Shore should have been, but it is sad to see that everything that made the Shore what it is is now being dumbed down, removed or bypassed. Progress indeed. It seems that trail maintenance even includes pounding out rock holes to prevent peoples' feet from getting wet, as if that ever mattered. And I freely admit I cannot ride what did 20 years ago, but what of the upcoming generation? Where is the challenge? Growth? Development? Pushing boundaries? Is this not what building knowledge is based on? But then again, there is no real personal liability there.

So I suppose a resurrection of "Walk in the Clouds" is out of the question.

http://www.epiccyclist.com/

July 19, 2016, 9:07 p.m.
Posts: 18280
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

really?

Yes. Straight from the man.

July 19, 2016, 9:09 p.m.
Posts: 6118
Joined: April 10, 2005

And I said this would happen.

The hard trails, those that push the boundaries and offer the greatest liability, will all be gone. Why have PS when the masses are used to the low impact, low risk Seventh, Espresso and Bobsled. The powers that be don't want PS of yore back. That is why you saw little maintenance, advocacy and work.

SO where is the NSMBA, Mark Wood et al. in this? Just like the bastardization of Executioner with Bitches Brew: whom asked anyone about the cutting out of the bottom half of Executioner (old line, that I admit was steep but that was the challenge) to "create" what we have now? The rock face roll on the bottom last bit of Executioner was mandatory Shore, and now gone simply because someone thought the "erosive" factor, or most likely, the "liability impact" was too great. North Shore gnarl indeed.

And remember, there is no getting it back. As a maintainer myself, when you see your work (and building ladders, supports etc is no small task) get torn down even before it is finished or used you get to the point of "why bother". This is completely why the Shore is no more and simply a Lululemon playground without any real soul. Those trails of any real meat and significance of character building will eventually either: be dumbed down to the point of no liability; or, removed completely. Sadly, this is the case with most everything once it gets mainstream.

So what of the future.

What of building skill, character and trail development? Where is the new generation that is going to show why the Shore is the best? I bet with a bit of work you could find more core "Shore" trails on Mammoth, or most any other US bike park (including Whistler), but ironically, in a bike park there is an EXPLICIT statement of liability. Thank you all lawyers. The real killers of the core Shore.

You know, in the 34 years I have ridden Fromme from my youth I could not of imagined that it turned into what it is now, and even more alarming, is how accepted it is and expected. And be careful of the demands you make; you reap what you sow. When the riding public all expect easy, flowy, low liability trails, that is what you get. And look at what you have now… exactly that.

I ride elsewhere now, and it resembles what the Shore should have been, but it is sad to see that everything that made the Shore what it is is now being dumbed down, removed or bypassed. Progress indeed. It seems that trail maintenance even includes pounding out rock holes to prevent peoples' feet from getting wet, as if that ever mattered. And I freely admit I cannot ride what did 20 years ago, but what of the upcoming generation? Where is the challenge? Growth? Development? Pushing boundaries? Is this not what building knowledge is based on? But then again, there is no real personal liability there.

So I suppose a resurrection of "Walk in the Clouds" is out of the question.

This.

July 19, 2016, 9:53 p.m.
Posts: 132
Joined: Feb. 8, 2016

I'm glad that I took a run down there a few weeks ago. Granted I got lost and am pretty sure I missed a big portion of the trail, but still. New woodwork was solid and flowed well, plus I finally discovered the gnarly rock face, rope bridge and Ogopogo log. Sad times.

Hopefully NSMBA will clarify the situation shortly so we're not left to speculate about why it was shut down.

July 19, 2016, 10:08 p.m.
Posts: 35
Joined: Oct. 16, 2015

Problem:

Internet posts, pictures and videos giving the haters ammunition to complain to the land managers who then are obligated to react.

Solutions:

Get off the interwebs and ride your bike and a lot of our troubles go away.

Become a paid member and that gives the association more power when discussing with land managers.

Stop questioning online and come help out in person.

Does anyone know why a few complaints hold so much sway? Why such a drastic knee jerk reaction? Do land managers not have the ability to defer to the greater good/opinion? Is this why i'm always angry? Where is my sandwich? And other questions.

July 20, 2016, 6:46 a.m.
Posts: 143
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Yes. Straight from the man.

so you seem to be implying that the District authorized the work, which was started, and because someone posted a picture of it, someone complained, and the District was 'forced' to respond by ordering it deconstructed? that doesn't make any sense.

so now people aren't allowed to publicly share or discuss authorized works? or was it unauthorized? was it authorized, but only if it remained a secret? and well, the 'haters' found out so the district is throwing the NSMBA under the bus? you think the haters wouldn't have found out regardless?

July 20, 2016, 7:02 a.m.
Posts: 18280
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

No, I said the man told us the haters send them complainy letters with photos and videos found online and that we are our own worst enemy by feeding the fire in threads like this one.

Hi Monica! How are you?

July 20, 2016, 7:11 a.m.
Posts: 143
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

No, I said the man told us the haters send them complainy letters with photos and videos found online and that we are our own worst enemy by feeding the fire in threads like this one.

Hi Monica! How are you?

so the district is rescinding authorized work because of complainers, gotcha. heaven forbid people want to know what's happening with trails they care about and the money they use to support the club and trails and/or discuss it.

July 20, 2016, 7:17 a.m.
Posts: 18280
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Please! Come discuss it!

http://nsmba.ca/content/2016-07_coffee-outside-qa

July 20, 2016, 7:26 a.m.
Posts: 14590
Joined: Dec. 16, 2003

I thought PS was slated for decommission from the very start of this whole mess? I found it curiously odd that someone went in and did a bunch of work on it when I thought it was common knowledge that it's days were numbered. Did the district issue a permit?

July 20, 2016, 7:27 a.m.
Posts: 143
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Please! Come discuss it!

http://nsmba.ca/content/2016-07_coffee-outside-qa

sorry I'm busy with WORCA trail building on Sproatt this weekend. not everyone can make in person chats and rely on talking amongst themselves in mediums they have access to.

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