Who is that guy on CBC?

You misunderstood my post entirely.

Ned's is NOT a highway, and portions have changed a great deal, that's what I said. But there's many areas on Ned's that have not changed. To fix it up, anyone can make it as technical as it already is without making it into a highway. If you rode Ned's on a short travel bike, or on a DH bike at speed, you realize that it is a gnarler.

Also, I am not dismissing trail work at all! Re-read my post. The trailwork that has been done to Joyride for example is A GOOD THING! That's my point, the work on there has not made it into a highway.

Ladies used to have far more traffic before Todd fixed it up 2 years ago. Remember how technical it was? It still is somewhat. Bogey Man sees at least as much traffic as CBC. Your perception of what's being ridden is obviously being skewed.

So don't tell me or others who agree that we want to ride a paved trail when we don't (everyone wants to ride it???). I think you need to ride harder trails and learn to appreciate them for how unique they really are. If you don't like it, either learn how to ride them, or move to Kamloops, but don't make blanket statements on a demographic you have no idea about.

Everyone does not like paved trails. Are you reading my posts at all?

Maybe I took it out of text. I didn't directly mean to say you are dissmissing trailwork, because I know you aren't. Sorry for the missunderstanding. Ned's has no knarl to it really. Maybe for a beginner rider but I can rip ned's as fast on my hardtail with 4" fork as my 8" travel Dh bike. I have a very good perception of what is being riding because I work on trails all over the hills. I did not go to one NSMBA trail day this year, which I regret but I did do a lot fo work indepentently with Old man Peter and with Switch. Work on Boogie on a saturday, you MIGHT see 4 or 5 riders. Work on Ned's or CBC you'll see close to 100 or more. Lower ladies gets twice the amount of traffic it did 2 years ago now. You can't say it doesn't because everyone has found it and told there friends, new people join the sport everyday and people ride more and more now. Remember when Lower Ladies was a secret trail and only a select few people knew about it? it used to be a very hidden trail, a real local gem. I remember those days.

I have a great idea of what people want to ride, sorry if I came off as wanting paved trails. I don't entirely but they will be here to stay no matter what you and the majority say, because paved trails last. It's a simple fact.

For the record please don't call me on my riding ability. I have Ridden almost every trail on the shore and I see what goes on. I am speaking for the majority. Most of the older people in the sport want to ride the hard tehcnical trails, like they did back in the day. This can be done but in some places you gotta pave, som places it's the only way.

Perhaps we are confusing the term highway with dumbing down.

A lot of the maintenance HAS to be done to keep up with the traffic and to prevent erosion. This does result in dumbing down the trail and making it more smooth. I don't think they are less challenging though. I'd rather have a dumbed down smooth trail rather than the eroded POS that is for example Coiler.

I also don't mind riding either trail on a given day. I appreciate the work that is done on the 'highways' as well as the challenge of the more natural trails.

Who would deny that the trails on Cypress need work? Work on those trails would make them easier, but no less challenging.

Ladies is a lot easier now, it will also last longer for the work Digger has put into it. Neds has eroded down to bedrock, the drops are bigger and when it rains its a creek. If this is your idea of a trail the majority want, then I don't know who you are talking too.

There are a lot of natural trails still out there that do not need the level of maintenance as others since they are not ridden as often. I wonder why that is???

Kudo's to all the riders who are working on the trails to extend their lives.

Originally posted by gimped
**
So don't tell me or others who agree that we want to ride a paved trail when we don't (everyone wants to ride it???). I think you need to ride harder trails and learn to appreciate them for how unique they really are. If you don't like it, either learn how to ride them, or move to Kamloops, but don't make blanket statements on a demographic you have no idea about.

Everyone does not like paved trails. Are you reading my posts at all? **

I am reading your posts.

You are wrong.

The majority of riders riding now started riding only a short time ago - I mean 3 or less years ago.

Many of these riders don't like riding rooty trails with flat or uphill sections.

They want trails that are consistently downhill, have smooth transition drops and are smooth.

I'm not saying they lack the skills to ride roots, or the fitness to go uphill, I'm just saying that's what they like

So the answer to that is to direct most of this traffic to segregated trails like CBC or Upper Oilcan or 7th where they can get their fix. These trails are built in a way to take a huge amount of traffic.

The one's who want to progress and get more dimension to their riding will move on to trails like Starfish or Dales. They will explore their limits. Heck - they may even go back to a hardtail or a singlespeed or take up epic riding. Horrors - they may even get an XC bike and enjoy riding uphill. Who knows?

The one's who don't like the fitness aspect or the challenge inherent in rooty trails will try trails like Starfish or Dales - hate them - bitch about drops to flat rooty landings- and stick to the heavily maintained "highway" trails.

If you think that the majority of people have the desire to take the effort to ride a trail like Big I or the Village Liftline then you are kidding yourself.

MY OPINION.

Hey Sharon, the more the trail work the better. Of course, that's an obvious point. Nobody's denying that. All the work that's being done on CBC and Upper Oilcan is simply amazing…I couldn't do it for sure.

I would like to not see a set of trails copied from one to the other. The work as work itself and construction abilities is invaluable to us all. Yet technical sections can be made into new technical sections, for example, put in a huge rock garden instead of a crushed-stone walkway. It's a lot of work, but you get my point don't you? Keeping technical as simply that - technical - can be acheived by trail work. I am voicing the opinions of many who are seeing a trend to make everything fast and smooth with less emphasis on natural (altered or not).

The North Shore does well with the fast and smooth in combination with the gnar-gnar (as Hoots calls it). That's why this place produces the levels of abilities it does. Let's not produce trails that consist entirely of log ride-paved-logride. Instead, let's see difficult "natural" terrain-log ride-difficult natural terrain. Trails like A-Line are super fun, but it gets boring after a while because there's nothing keeping you on your toes between the jumps. Just an example.

m33p: Sorry for assuming your abilities, but when you can ride from Corkscrew, all of Ned's, and bottletop in about 12-15 minutes, then it becomes challenging. It's quite easy going slow.

Lee, it's not a majority I am a part of. I'm telling you that not everyone wants to see the majority of the trails become highways. I am one, and there are others, who want to keep difficult trails difficult. WE ARE THE MINORITY. There should be some smoother trails for beginners and people who just want to sit on there seats and coast a trail. That's fine. Many of us do not want to see this trend be adapted to every trail.

I think we do need waaaay smoother landings. Drops to flat are simply dumb.

Ah Ok then I misunderstood. I agree that we (the one's who want to keep difficult trails difficult) are a minority.

However, I don't think drops to flat are dumb.

Originally posted by gimped
**Lee, it's not a majority I am a part of. I'm telling you that not everyone wants to see the majority of the trails become highways. I am one, and there are others, who want to keep difficult trails difficult. WE ARE THE MINORITY. There should be some smoother trails for beginners and people who just want to sit on there seats and coast a trail. That's fine. Many of us do not want to see this trend be adapted to every trail.

I think we do need waaaay smoother landings. Drops to flat are simply dumb. **

Gimped.

One problem with the loose rock garden, at least on steep sections, is that they will get washed away and rutted. The only way to prevent this is to put rocks down so they don't move and people will ride over them. If you don't make them smooth, people will avoid them and create a rut on either side of the rocks.

As Lee mentioned. We NEED the smooth trails to send the masses to. We need to anticipate the line they will take and armour those sections so we only have to do it once. Ideally, bridges should only be built across swamps or areas that cannot be rocked in since bridges have a finite life.

The trails that the NSMBA buff up are ones that are heavily eroded, heavily used and in need of work. This is why we are working on Pipeline this summer.

I agree that the focus of the work should not be to make the trails easier. The focus is to make the trails less prone to erosion while maintaining their inherent level of difficulty.

These trails were here long before mountain bikers, and they will be here after we are gone. Let our legacy not be to leave the trails eroded creeks, but trails we can still ride in 20 years when the masses have moved on.

Agreed.

i think one thing people are forgetting is that neds is easier beacause it's supposed to be easier. it is rated only blue is it not? Anyway the knarl may have been taken out of some of these trails a sections but the flow and consistency of the trail has improved. If you want a fast flowing trail, do neds or cbc. If you want knarl and a challenging ride, do ladies or pink starfish. thats why they have double black ratings. just remember certain trails are easier because they are supposed to be.

I think everyone has raised some good points here, and I am not in a position, nor do I feel any need, to argue with any of them.

I like knarl. I enjoy riding difficult trails that keep the crowds away, and I enjoy riding Neds, which compared to a lot of other Shore trails, is pretty flowy. Sure it has some nice root patterns and the odd drop, but it is not a technical trail at all in my mind. But hey, who am I ? :)

I DO want to say that drops to flat should become, and are becoming, a thing of the past (unless you are a trials riders, or a wicked old school dropper). Drops to flat feel like crap, look like crap, and like it or not, admit it or not, they wreck you and your bike and your wheels. There is no need to beat yourslef and your equipment when that same drop off can be buffed a bit with a tranny to make it a little easier on you and your bike. Whether you rock a 2" fork on a hardtail, or 8" on a DH bike, you will always stress yourslef and the bike on a drop to flat.

Before I get flamed, I should add my admiration of trials guys. Ryan Leach, for example, can make a 10 foot drop to flat look as smooth as another guy riding off a sidewalk. The cat-like ability these guys have is mind blowing, and deserves huge respect.

Originally posted by gimped
**Hey Sharon, the more the trail work the better. Of course, that's an obvious point. Nobody's denying that. All the work that's being done on CBC and Upper Oilcan is simply amazing…I couldn't do it for sure.

I would like to not see a set of trails copied from one to the other. The work as work itself and construction abilities is invaluable to us all. Yet technical sections can be made into new technical sections, for example, put in a huge rock garden instead of a crushed-stone walkway. It's a lot of work, but you get my point don't you? Keeping technical as simply that - technical - can be acheived by trail work. I am voicing the opinions of many who are seeing a trend to make everything fast and smooth with less emphasis on natural (altered or not).

The North Shore does well with the fast and smooth in combination with the gnar-gnar (as Hoots calls it). That's why this place produces the levels of abilities it does. Let's not produce trails that consist entirely of log ride-paved-logride. Instead, let's see difficult "natural" terrain-log ride-difficult natural terrain. Trails like A-Line are super fun, but it gets boring after a while because there's nothing keeping you on your toes between the jumps. Just an example.

m33p: Sorry for assuming your abilities, but when you can ride from Corkscrew, all of Ned's, and bottletop in about 12-15 minutes, then it becomes challenging. It's quite easy going slow. **

The problem with building a huge rock garden is as Sharon said, it takes a lot of work. What 10 people could make a solid rock garden with 200 pound rocks (so they dont move when ridden over) would take those same 10 people to fix up 5 sections and have them around for years. Yes less tehcnical but done faster and preserving the trail somewhat. It's a hard descision and I know as a independant trail worker I would rather spend my time on 1 section with smaller rocks and less tehcnical than take a year to make it more technical. It's just takes to much time and work.

No problem on the assuming of riding ability.

I think the best way to do it is to start off the trail when you make it and have it solid from the start but we can't really do that on the shore anymore with all the issues. Oh well.

Yea - tons of work.

It's spelled "gnarl" btw, not with a k. Comes from "Gnarly". Some surf lingo for ya.

It seems pretty simple to me if you dont like the trail ie CBC or Upper Oilcan ride somthing else. Those trails divert traffic from the real gems anyway.

Having said that I would not want to see every trail become a CBC or UO but I dont think that will be the case