West Vancouver Upper Lands review - future of Cypress trails (merged)

You know Kevin, (my name is Gord) if you had gone to the NSMBA AGM maybe you did (and if you did then you already know that your comment is moot ) but that trail design, back in the day, did what it had to do and even Digger and the Program Director of the NSMBA indicated at the AGM- if my recollection is absolutely correct- that today's trail design now has superseded that initial foray into the unknowns of that time.

NNL was not CBC. CBC could never by NNL.

Fromme is not Seymour.
Seymour is not Cypress.

It is not about blissful sustainability. Is is about maturity with working with others.

For those of you that don't ride Cypress, here's a photo of a structure "modified" by deadend.

This is what he did, knowing about "no structures" and being explicitly told that NNL needed to come off the radar.

This is what he thought was acceptable.

This is why what happened to NNL is no surprise.

For those of you that don't ride Cypress, here's a photo of a structure "modified" by deadend.

This is what he did, knowing about "no structures" and being explicitly told that NNL needed to come off the radar.

This is what he thought was acceptable.

This is why what happened to NNL is no surprise.

You seem to be misleading the truth. The builders did go back up and tear that structure down along with the other in the background. Both we replaced with dirt to dirt………no different than other recently built stuff on Cypress. Builders were told that still wasn't good enough but was ok on other trails????? Oh the confusion!

Bottom line is Alan has been the person working the longest and hardest to save trails on cypress.

The builders were told no structures.

The NNL builders have admitted they built the trail with no intention of it being allowed to remain so they obviously knew they were crossing the line.

The good thing that has come of this is it has provided the catalyst for the builders to form a group to preserve the riding experience on cypress.

Let's move forward now and support the new group and work with the land managers to save the cypress trails,

Bottom line is Alan has been the person working the longest and hardest to save trails on cypress.

The builders were told no structures.

The NNL builders have admitted they built the trail with no intention of it being allowed to remain so they obviously knew they were crossing the line.

The good thing that has come of this is it has provided the catalyst for the builders to form a group to preserve the riding experience on cypress.

Let's move forward now and support the new group and work with the land managers to save the cypress trails,

Again more confusion in communication!
They built it knowing the area was going to be developed and likely would become housing…….They went and spent countless hours building something that many riders had been wanting!

NNL was never a permanent plan, we never expected it to last forever, we put together the most fun we could think of and planned to just ride it until the development took over. Never planned to fight with anyone about what should be done with their land or making that trail permanent. …
Bash away f%^kers!

I think this is where some of the confusion is… with respect to builder's intention. It could be inferred from that statement that "never a permanent plan" was in fact building whatever, however, get our smiles, knowing it was going to get destroyed deliberately doing what you wanted despite other suggestions.

Let us not confuse "permanence" with "sanctioned" since "sanctioned" infers cooperation to building standards to allow for insurance ect - building standards which the landowner's have communicated, via Alan, to the builders.

"Putting it together for the most fun until development took over" my personal viewpoint is this: that is the old school early DVD's attitude of "pre-sanctioned" trails one suggestion is maybe build where there is no development risk which would take over your incredible passion and skill. It would be, like you say in an earlier post your private playground. So be it.

We need to bridge this divide and save what we have now on Cypress by getting on the same page. We need to try to understand all viewpoints and get to a middle spot. The best comment I can make here is not any one of us will get 100% of what we personally, selfishly, want and I am NOT pointing the fingers to only the builders I am also including the desires of the riders, the desires of DWV, the desires of BPP, the desires of the hikers the desires of the citizens of West Van- this is the conversation- all at the table will need to bend to reach a consensus.

NNL was the catalyst for this, maybe so and that is how I look at it. The builders' have incredible skill and passion. And maybe this is how we move forward, NNL gave us an important catalyst, at these builders' loss of personal effort and passion.

The Upper Lands Working Group is an important table to be involved with and we NEED, in my personal view, to be involved and on the same page with one another.

I think at this point we move forward with what we have learned from this experience.

Wow, you idiots have come up with all this bullshit without ever even going to look at what the trail was. Allan those pics were sent to you as a temporary fix until we could get up and make it dirt, which was also explained to you! We did go make most of it dirt and you rolled on without even having a look. And I know Kevin sent you pics as we worked because we talked about the lack of response. None of the structures in that picture still existed, they were all dirt. Reading these posts is funny cause you all don't even know your working against each other. Money doesn't replace physical investment SB, its supposed to go along with it, not sayin you have to go out n build, but at least have a walk and see it for your own eye before blessing us with your bullshit. Enjoy your politics boys.

Enjoy your politics boys.

with your attitude and lack of forethought on this whole trail, you are sure to have future issues like this if you move to another mountain where the landowner and trail groups are involved. be sure to think long and hard about where you build the next NNL because there aren't too many places around here where this shit will fly any more.

let's build a stunt trail on a mountain where the landowner has asked for no new trails, and no new stunts. let's also spam it all over the internet. wonder what will happen?

Deadend- I understand you are upset and raging. Fine. I get it.

Your emotion is understandable, but it makes no difference with what we are about to do, or the conversations we are about to have.

I think a consensus is building for Cypress's future. Cheers and best of luck with your future trail endeavour's on other mountain slopes. I hope you have lots of fun on the stuff you build for you.

Cheers

You seem to be misleading the truth. The builders did go back up and tear that structure down along with the other in the background. Both we replaced with dirt to dirt………no different than other recently built stuff on Cypress. Builders were told that still wasn't good enough but was ok on other trails????? Oh the confusion!

I thought I was done with this, but Ripper has a valid point.

The structure in the photo was the first modified structure he hoped would be acceptable. It wasn't.

Here's the next attempt, which was equally unacceptable.

Ripper, this was in Nov, 7 months after the land owner told Kevin directly that structures were not acceptable. We're now 4 months further down the road, and the owner is still waiting for the situation to be remedied.

The land owner has not touched NNL.

I understand your frustration that your efforts were not acceptable, but by failing to comply with the "no structures" request, the trail has continued to negatively impact relations with the land owner.

This affects all the builders on Cypress. While the owner has been patient with NNL and even offered to grandfather it in as an existing trail (sans structures), other new trails such as Dirty Harry will not fare as well.

Don't shoot the messenger. I hope the meeting went well tonight and the builders get organized. We all want the frustration to end.

We are building the foundations for a cooperative builder's stakeholder group for specifically the Cypress trails.

This group will be those of us who want to maintain a future of mountain biking within Cypress… so that we will not have to deal with a situation like this again.

April 1 is the next Upper Lands Working Group meeting in West Van. I will be there to observe. I encourage you all to consider going then you will really see the true issue we all are facing.

… It was suggested I drop my old DJ name. So the Sneaky Bastard is retired. Hi, I am me. Nice to meet you.

April 1 is the next Upper Lands Working Group meeting in West Van. I will be there to observe.

Hi Gord. Welcome to monkey house. :)

Take good notes for me on Tuesday. I'll be out of town.

Info about the ULWG meetings is on the DWV site here. The meetings are open to the public and everyone is welcome, especially those that like meetings. :eek2:

… It was suggested I drop my old DJ name. So the Sneaky Bastard is retired. Hi, I am me. Nice to meet you.

Let me know if you want your profile updated with a new name versus abandoning it.