Update: 2014 Seymour Work Plan - Trail Decommissions

Interesting publication from Metro:
http://www.metrovancouver.org/about/publications/Publications/LSCRMtnBikeGuide.pdf
(apparently from 2008 )

BLACK DIAMOND SWITCHBACK EXTREME!

:lol:

Actually quite a decent read with good information, just a bit dated from a design point of view…

Not according to the map legend….:-)

Sent from my XT885 using Tapatalk

Municipal jurisdiction and ownership are different things. You're probably both right.

"Lola has many safety, environmental and liability concerns that cannot be mitigated. Decommissioning this trail is part of our 2014 work plan. May /June"

Time for me to weigh in on this - i've basically been silent on this issue in public forums out of respect for the Land Manager and NSMBA. Now that they have publicly acknowledged the existence of Lola, I feel it's appropriate to discuss it in open forums.

First - before I even threw my first shovel into the ground, I was aware that Lola would be a rogue trail, and being so, was at a high risk of being decomm'd at some time. This was always in the back of my head - and that was was likely to happen sooner than later. I was right. I will also say that I had never built a trail before and was not too sure how the final product would turn out. I think it turned out awesome. My goal was to create a new line to the mysterious Cambodia that included more air time, more gaps, more drops, more flow. The shore is desperately lacking in this style of riding. Lola would be considered a Black Diamond trail by shore standards and have some challenging aspects to it, but all easily accomplished by many accomplished DH riders after several goes. I built it safe. I chose to build it on Seymour because at the time, I felt it was the least politically charged area to build a trail, and that Lola would fly under the radar (ala Cambodia for +15 years) for the longest time. how the pendulum has completely swung the other way…

My first mistake (other than going rogue) was not sourcing more cedar for elevated structures. LSCR pounced on that. On that side of the hill there was not a lot of cedar available for stringers - without cutting down live trees. I must point out that not one live tree was cut at any time for this build. I searched high and low on that side of the mountain for good cedar stringers but could find very few. It's largely a mono-culture of Hemlock in that area, especially the first half, and I resorted to Hemlock for stringers. I was aware that this severely limited the life-span of structures to 5 years. As I built, and gained more experience, I became better at sourcing cedar from old growth cedar "quarries" and found ways to better use resources. My last few structures were entirely bomb-proof cedar structures. It was my intention to replace all structures to this same higher standard.

LSCR knew of Lola a while ago - and engaged in discussion with NSMBA and indirectly with me through NSMBA. Eventually I was in direct contact with LSCR. There was a lot of indecision initially about what to do about Lola. I made it clear was was very willing to accomodate any of their reasonable requests to make changes to Lola (structures, lines etc). Eventually, they made the decision that they didn't like it. LSCR has an unjustified paranoia of wood structures. They preach the mantra of wanting to offer multiple riding experiences for all riders on the shore, but when it comes down to it, anything higher than a couple feet off the ground they can't stomach. They were reluctant to provide building guidelines that they were comfortable with. I have repeatedly asked for specific explanations as to why they chose to close Lola. I was always fed with the same PR line (see opening quote). Nothing specific was ever offered with regards to environmental concerns or liability.. I did acknowledge that extractions of injured riders from this area of the mountain could prove to be very difficult, but this was never confirmed in my discussions with LSCR as one of the reasons they chose to close Lola. Extractions from Cambodia will be even more difficult yet Cambodia is on its way to being sanctioned.
I also proposed a 5-year agreement to act as the Trail warden - maintaining Lola, providing bi-monthly reports, asking for annual inspections and walk-throughs with LSCR reps. All of this was flatly rejected and I was fed the same non-descript explanation for closure. I was more than willing to address all of their specific concerns about Lola, but since I was provided with no specific issues, nothing could be done. Lola was done.

I know my position as a rogue trail builder accords me nothing. I know that LSCR is completely within their means to not discuss their reasons openly to close Lola. I know that LSCR is the manager and can chose to do whatever it pleases…I just think they failed huge with this one. Lola was an awesome line. It was a great link to Cambodia. It was a full mountain, Black Diamond (double-black some might even say) top-to-bottom DH line when linked with CBC. It was enjoyed by all Local's who knew about it. It had someone who was committed to maintaining it. What more could you ask for in a trail?

I am still open to resurrecting, and maintaining Lola in conjunction with LSCR's input. I can only hope that the pendulum once again swings back the other way in the future and lends itself to to possibility that Lola may Ride once again. For now i am resigned to the fact that she's temporarily out of commision…but every inch of that trail is firmply planted in my memory,and getting it back up and running again would be a pleasure.

Hope you all enjoyed it.

in case you never saw it ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXrcx6JdYHs

"Lola has many safety, environmental and liability concerns that cannot be mitigated. Decommissioning this trail is part of our 2014 work plan. May /June"

Time for me to weigh in on this - i've basically been silent on this issue in public forums out of respect for the Land Manager and NSMBA. Now that they have publicly acknowledged the existence of Lola, I feel it's appropriate to discuss it in open forums.

First - before I even threw my first shovel into the ground, I was aware that Lola would be a rogue trail, and being so, was at a high risk of being decomm'd at some time. This was always in the back of my head - and that was was likely to happen sooner than later. I was right. I will also say that I had never built a trail before and was not too sure how the final product would turn out. I think it turned out awesome. My goal was to create a new line to the mysterious Cambodia that included more air time, more gaps, more drops, more flow. The shore is desperately lacking in this style of riding. Lola would be considered a Black Diamond trail by shore standards and have some challenging aspects to it, but all easily accomplished by many accomplished DH riders after several goes. I built it safe. I chose to build it on Seymour because at the time, I felt it was the least politically charged area to build a trail, and that Lola would fly under the radar (ala Cambodia for +15 years) for the longest time. how the pendulum has completely swung the other way…

My first mistake (other than going rogue) was not sourcing more cedar for elevated structures. LSCR pounced on that. On that side of the hill there was not a lot of cedar available for stringers - without cutting down live trees. I must point out that not one live tree was cut at any time for this build. I searched high and low on that side of the mountain for good cedar stringers but could find very few. It's largely a mono-culture of Hemlock in that area, especially the first half, and I resorted to Hemlock for stringers. I was aware that this severely limited the life-span of structures to 5 years. As I built, and gained more experience, I became better at sourcing cedar from old growth cedar "quarries" and found ways to better use resources. My last few structures were entirely bomb-proof cedar structures. It was my intention to replace all structures to this same higher standard.

LSCR knew of Lola a while ago - and engaged in discussion with NSMBA and indirectly with me through NSMBA. Eventually I was in direct contact with LSCR. There was a lot of indecision initially about what to do about Lola. I made it clear was was very willing to accomodate any of their reasonable requests to make changes to Lola (structures, lines etc). Eventually, they made the decision that they didn't like it. LSCR has an unjustified paranoia of wood structures. They preach the mantra of wanting to offer multiple riding experiences for all riders on the shore, but when it comes down to it, anything higher than a couple feet off the ground they can't stomach. They were reluctant to provide building guidelines that they were comfortable with. I have repeatedly asked for specific explanations as to why they chose to close Lola. I was always fed with the same PR line (see opening quote). Nothing specific was ever offered with regards to environmental concerns or liability.. I did acknowledge that extractions of injured riders from this area of the mountain could prove to be very difficult, but this was never confirmed in my discussions with LSCR as one of the reasons they chose to close Lola. Extractions from Cambodia will be even more difficult yet Cambodia is on its way to being sanctioned.
I also proposed a 5-year agreement to act as the Trail warden - maintaining Lola, providing bi-monthly reports, asking for annual inspections and walk-throughs with LSCR reps. All of this was flatly rejected and I was fed the same non-descript explanation for closure. I was more than willing to address all of their specific concerns about Lola, but since I was provided with no specific issues, nothing could be done. Lola was done.

I know my position as a rogue trail builder accords me nothing. I know that LSCR is completely within their means to not discuss their reasons openly to close Lola. I know that LSCR is the manager and can chose to do whatever it pleases…I just think they failed huge with this one. Lola was an awesome line. It was a great link to Cambodia. It was a full mountain, Black Diamond (double-black some might even say) top-to-bottom DH line when linked with CBC. It was enjoyed by all Local's who knew about it. It had someone who was committed to maintaining it. What more could you ask for in a trail?

I am still open to resurrecting, and maintaining Lola in conjunction with LSCR's input. I can only hope that the pendulum once again swings back the other way in the future and lends itself to to possibility that Lola may Ride once again. For now i am resigned to the fact that she's temporarily out of commision…but every inch of that trail is firmply planted in my memory,and getting it back up and running again would be a pleasure.

Hope you all enjoyed it.

Definitely one of my favorites on the whole shore… I still hope it's not a definite closure. That would be a real shame!

Thanks for the good times Dub

Lola to Cam was my Fav (on that side of Seymour) being that the whole lenght was Black Diamond with tons of variety. One of the best !!

yep. Rode it only once and was the best trail on Seymour.

Thanks Dub…

It was my favorite trail on the Shore.

Yeah thanks. One of my favourites on the mountain. I'm amazed it was your first trail ever. It flowed so well and had a bit of everything. Sad times its gone.

Shame about Lola and Dales Rock Face.

The shore is just not the same anymore. It's sad that we're loosing more and more of the old moves (those aren't even that hard). On the good side tho, I'm getting older and the trails are getting easier so it's a win for me as I don't ride the big stuff as much anymore (well the big drops anyway;))

Yes. Best trail on the Shore. It's incredible that it's your first trail.

This would be a great trail to save. The NSMBA should use some of the good will they've been building to put some pressure on the land manager.

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Done (emailed LCSR).

I have not visited Lola yet this year, and do not know the current state of the decommissioning plan, but now that LCSR has publicized the existence of this trail (and by doing so increased any risk there may be by increasing frequency of access), a proper public disclosure of the reasons for decommissioning would be nice. This feels like an arbitrary decision.

The structures were down last year. Has anything else been done? If not, there is still time to try to get LCSR to put further decomm pans on hold. The trail is a great asset, structures or not.

Land managers have the right to do what they want on their land. If they have a strong organization to work with, one that has a vision and plan that the managers can agree on then there should be a common goal and everyone should get what they want.

I don't ride the shore much, but I did ride Dales and Forever After. I was surprised at how tough Dales was as the feeder route into Forever After, the new great blue seymour trail.

I'm not surprised that that rock face was considered too risky. I guess that's the price you have to pay for access to the latest trail on seymour.

After ready dubs attempts to work with the managers and their refusal to work with him suggests there is an underlying lack of trust between the two groups.

Too bad.