trailforks

[QUOTE=ol' dirty;2723285]Are you seriously using Strava as a bad example here? You might want to stop posting up your poaches there, especially since they're under your name and you're using the same avatar.

…even more so when they're sensitive trails being ridden in the rain!

pulls up chair

Devil's advocate here.
Sure I see why a builder might not want his trail published, but here's the counterpoint.

You want a private, secret trail? Build it on your land.
Build it on public land, it's a public trail.
Map on.

Secret trails are silly. Just get over yourselves.

Devil's advocate here.
Sure I see why a builder might not want his trail published, but here's the counterpoint.

You want a private, secret trail? Build it on your land.
Build it on public land, it's a public trail.
Map on.

Secret trails are silly. Just get over yourselves.

What if the trail isn't finished, or it's improperly represented. What if it's hidden because there is a fear of moto poaching in that area?

I don't need trails. I just ride right through everything. Trails are for followers. I'm a leader.

It seems you prefer to beg for forgiveness rather than ask for permission, with respect to copyrighted photos uploaded to your site without credit, maps from trail associations, and trails that should not be in the public domain.

Obviously you're in a tough position, but you still have some trail builders and advocacy associations who are unhappy with your treatment of their trails. That's a fundamental problem.

Bingo.

Morgman is a tactful guy, you should listen to what he's saying.

I'd be more concerned with crappy data placed on google maps by kids who think they're helping. Once that data gets into Google it's never coming out.

I tried to correct over 100km's of wrongly posted trails and haven't had any luck from google. Canadaka has been very helpful.

so the issue here is the guy with the website, not the people building illegal trails in high profile areas?

;);)finally a good thread to sink some teeth into..things been way to effin boring on the boards lately. Best damn argument been about chainsaws FFS. Once SYncro gets in on this one all hell gonna break loose.

As a builder of a "secret trail" i couldnt give a rats ass what happens to it anymore as far as publicity/who rides it or if it gets torn down…but i am aware of the politics that surround the trail and pretty much defer any publication of info regarding such trail to the land owners discretion and the mountain biking associations that work with the land owners to manage trails in that area…if i had it my way there would have been an awesome trail opening day - signs pointing to it - etc etc… as such that dont happen on the shore - so if you've heard of it and rode it - congrats - hope you enjoyed it. I get my kicks seeing people hooting and hollering as they rip down as much as i enjoy getting out there and haulin rock etc.

From what ive read canadaka seems to have his heart in the right place. He wants to provide a resource to the MTB community - to riders who want to ride new trails….while trying to respect the cocnerns of MTB Assoc/builders etc…sure he may have stepped on a few toes but he has made efforts to respond to concerns and seems willing to change his opinion/website when people speak rationally to him. Cant ask for much more than that….
Canadaka - have a bit of a thick skin when reading the crap that spews outta this thread. THeres a lota crusty SOB's out there (me included) who say lotsa crap on here. If you feel like youre doing the right thing - go with it. And if you happen to put some tread down on a few toes so be it - youve made it clear you listen and respond. cant do much more than that.

and ps - nice photo on your home page -;)

^^ well put, he's been nothing but respectful in my dealing with him.

so the issue here is the guy with the website, not the people building illegal trails in high profile areas?

This is a good point, and it's probably high on the list of questions that someone outside the mountain bike community would ask. While I agree that illegal trails are part of the problem, from a historical perspective they're part of North Shore and even BC mountain bike culture. The first trails were illegal, but have now been sanctioned and everyone enjoys bragging about how they've known about some secret trail longer than other people. That makes us more likely to dislike people who publicize these trails, rather than the people who built them.

It's like being in high school, nobody hates the guy that sells the weed, but everyone hates the snitch that gets him busted, because then there's no more weed.

I think that the Trailforks website is actually quite good, and yeah, Trevor has been considerate when I've dealt with him too, but my issue is that if you post the GPSs of sensitive trails, they're gonna get ridden come rain or shine because some people don't know any better and others don't give two hoots as long as they're getting they're kicks (I guess Trevor falls into this category)!

This is a good point, and it's probably high on the list of questions that someone outside the mountain bike community would ask. While I agree that illegal trails are part of the problem, from a historical perspective they're part of North Shore and even BC mountain bike culture. The first trails were illegal, but have now been sanctioned and everyone enjoys bragging about how they've known about some secret trail longer than other people. That makes us more likely to dislike people who publicize these trails, rather than the people who built them.

It's like being in high school, nobody hates the guy that sells the weed, but everyone hates the snitch that gets him busted, because then there's no more weed.

funny analogy, I don't disagree that people need to be a bit more discreet about publicizing things, I guess regardless of the trails level of use.

While I agree that illegal trails are part of the problem, from a historical perspective they're part of North Shore and even BC mountain bike culture.

This is hardly a North Shore or BC thing. These sort of debates and issues with trail building crop up the world over. I can tell you that in Ontario, bikers are far more anal about keeping things secret than here. I am willing to bet you venture to the MTB forums of any region from Australia, South Africa, to the UK and you will you see these same debates raging on.

The story is always this: some ambitious kids decide to build some sort of kick ass play center somewhere in the public school yard. They are ok with some people playing there and not others, and so they rather make it exclusive. Naturally most kids want to play there, and not happy they are not in the "in group". There are some kids that just want to tear it up, use the space for something else, or just because they are ass holes. Then there are the boring adults, whose main concerns are rules, regulation, and possible liabilities of the unauthorized build. They are puzzled why the kids just don't play in the sanctioned playground already built for them instead of tearing up public property.