I was 4 glasses of wine in when I posted that, and it almost made sense! That's a first!

Well, in the sum, I think it worked for you. The fact that signs are popping up indicates someone is aware of the issue and is taken reasonable first steps. Can you tell who posted them? Were the signs official?

Further, the US situation doesn’t translate well to us and never has. The legal structure of land ownership there is very different from here.

Different yes. However land ownership and access for MTB trails varies greatly in Canada. Some areas like BC have huge areas of Crown land that is available. While other areas like Ontario do not have that so it is completely different. But as I have found out from attending a few meetings when public input is asked…it is amazing how attentive those who can cause us access issues note happenings else where.

Well, in the sum, I think it worked for you. The fact that signs are popping up indicates someone is aware of the issue and is taken reasonable first steps. Can you tell who posted them? Were the signs official?

Lowcard mentioned in a Strava thread that some of the trails in Loops are in private land. And depending on the land owners frame of mind about access that is what they allow.

I've never thought about signing any of the trails I cut/maintain, but a no motors sign or two just may be worth it. Make things clear before people start to get funny ideas…

Different yes. However land ownership and access for MTB trails varies greatly in Canada. Some areas like BC have huge areas of Crown land that is available. While other areas like Ontario do not have that so it is completely different. But as I have found out from attending a few meetings when public input is asked…it is amazing how attentive those who can cause us access issues note happenings else where.

I agree. The population centres of most provinces have little local wilderness, and equally so regarding large chunks of Crown land. And obviously the state of mountain biking there reflects this.

I have also noticed that the vocal opposition has always tried to focus the debate on the happenings (in other regions, even world wide) that back their opinions. From my experience, these are people who stew in their anger about what they think they don't like. I think it becomes like a hobby for them and they spend a lot of effort looking for whatever they think helps make their case. It is amazing. But they don't win much. Every politician, official, bureaucrat, manager all know these kind of people: they are vocal and over represent at public forums. After-all, they show up everywhere, complaining about change related to everything that happens in our changing world. Unknown to them, their overextended behaviour actually undermines them. Those exercising power, those they try to convince, acknowledge their point, but then largely tune them out.

hardasfuck

so it was red then?

Lowcard mentioned in a Strava thread that some of the trails in Loops are in private land. And depending on the land owners frame of mind about access that is what they allow.

All assumptions aside, no, a couple of private trails on public land have popped up with homemade signs. Nothing more.

That said, there have been no issues with ebikes here. In fact I have yet to see one. There are more issues with dirtbikers riding mountain bike trails within city limits.

so it was red then?

Red and cheap. #boxedwine for the win!

I've never thought about signing any of the trails I cut/maintain, but a no motors sign or two just may be worth it. Make things clear before people start to get funny ideas…

I'm actually more worried about stravassholes cutting corners than motorized bike riders.

I'm actually more worried about stravassholes cutting corners than motorized bike riders.

Interesting. Stravassholes - yet another special interest group. I have also experienced more dirtbikes motoring on the trails than anything else. I've seen a couple of ebikes, but I've seen many motorbikes in the Panorama area, The Woodlot and further up the valley. One day there was a dad using a mini-moto to tow his son (maybe 13 yrs old) back up the main Woodlot climb - all afternoon. It's all out there. Don't forget the naked hiker movement!

All assumptions aside, no, a couple of private trails on public land have popped up with homemade signs. Nothing more.

That said, there have been no issues with ebikes here. In fact I have yet to see one. There are more issues with dirtbikers riding mountain bike trails within city limits.

Sorry, thought you mentioned guy's riding some trails that had been closed by the guy with a lease.

I agree. The population centres of most provinces have little local wilderness, and equally so regarding large chunks of Crown land. And obviously the state of mountain biking there reflects this.

BC has alot of crown land. Wasn't till I came to Ontario to realize how fortunate BC is. Here unless you head north way north….what crown land?

I agree. The population centres of most provinces have little local wilderness, and equally so regarding large chunks of Crown land. And obviously the state of mountain biking there reflects this.

I have also noticed that the vocal opposition has always tried to focus the debate on the happenings (in other regions, even world wide) that back their opinions. From my experience, these are people who stew in their anger about what they think they don't like. I think it becomes like a hobby for them and they spend a lot of effort looking for whatever they think helps make their case. It is amazing. But they don't win much. Every politician, official, bureaucrat, manager all know these kind of people: they are vocal and over represent at public forums. After-all, they show up everywhere, complaining about change related to everything that happens in our changing world. Unknown to them, their overextended behaviour actually undermines them. Those exercising power, those they try to convince, acknowledge their point, but then largely tune them out.

It seems to be white people of a certain age bracket specifically aka Hostile Old Hikers Association. Who rant about damage and pretty much want it fenced off to all but them.

Having dealt with a few of those misguided types who in places like Ontario to date have had the say. And I can see how they can spin the whole E Bike thing into " Look it has a motor" and so on. And they can use it to their advantage against MTB's any where.

Sounds about right, but I bet, like here, those voices will gradually lose out to more reasonable one's.

And yes, I think Ontario might be the worst case for access to Crown Land. There is lots but its many hours away from the south west (eastern Great Lakes) and only a bit closer to south east (Ottawa area). I can also understand that the east might be somewhat behind us regarding the general development of mountain biking. While we have acheived critical mass, they might still be facing the Hostile Old Hikers Associations. These might also be the conditions under which some people would want to push ebiking into the mountain biking category. I think they will lose, even if they sway some people in the short term.

Actually, I think that that is an important point for us all to keep in mind: this is and has always been a long term game. I won't be panicking until I see our sport under attack and losing out over several years. I will be fighting for it before then, but not panicking. We need to fight for it even when it is doing well: with constant representation.

No need to panic…………….yet:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/lapierre-parts-ways-with-team-gravity-republic.html

For those of you that don't want to read the whole thing, from Gilles Lapierre in paragraph 4: "We are also supporting the development of ebike competition, which is undergoing massive expansion"

One of the top WC DH teams is dropping DH to focus more on enduro and to help develop ebike competition. Even though the market in Europe seems to be more tolerant of ebikes, I'm willing to bet we will be seeing a lot of these things over here in the next couple years.