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This is why we should oppose electric bikes

Sept. 6, 2015, 5:15 p.m.
Posts: 143
Joined: May 13, 2014

Saw a guy riding a MT bike on Seymour today with an Electric assist rear hub. Total cheater…..and fully armoured (full face, spineboard etc..) only to see him turn around and come back down the BP. Just wrong on so many levels.

Sept. 8, 2015, 12:52 p.m.
Posts: 28
Joined: July 20, 2015

Saw a guy riding a MT bike on Seymour today with an Electric assist rear hub. Total cheater…..and fully armoured (full face, spineboard etc..) only to see him turn around and come back down the BP. Just wrong on so many levels.

Me too - Sunday? I was coming up Old Buck just before BP, he came down Old Buck, turned right up that little BP climb after the bridge and just disa-frickken-peared. He was moving pretty good. I might have seen the same guy going up Mountain Highway at like 30k a few weeks ago too.

I'm not anti-e-bike. People like my dad would benefit greatly from this kind of technology - age and infirmities have taken their toll on him - but understanding the role of these machines and being cautious about the applications (who/where/when) would be beneficial.

I figure I've got about 10 more years of good riding before I might need a little help here and there, but I'd be more likely to turn to doping first.

Sept. 8, 2015, 1:58 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 7, 2006

I agree with qduffy that we need to understand "the role of these machines and (be) cautious about the applications."

As far as Mountain biking goes - its dangerous enough and trail conflicts with other user groups are difficult to manage as is. I can also see myself riding an ebike someday. If its the difference which allows me to get out and about, I'l be on one for sure. I would also want to get out into the forest trails on my ebike. Regardless, as I see things now, I hope I wouldn't be allowed. Yes it would be sad and unfair, but that's how it should be.

At the same time, if our regulating authorities do nothing about this, and if there is a wave of ebikers out using the trail network, I won't be getting angry with them. Like all the stupid things that go on (out of control dogs, smoking, riding without courtesy, etc.) fighting them can have no effect. They will be part of the new reality.

I would like the mountain bike community to help our municipal authorities and private land owners get out in front of this rather than waiting until problems arise and be reactive. If it is decided that ebikes are not allowed on singletrack trails, it will be easier to effect this rule starting now, and near imossible to do so after hundreds have been bought and put to such use.

I was hit (gently) by an electric car (backed into me) about two weeks ago. It startled the hell out of me - completely silent. I have heard talk of electric cars being made to have some 'noise' making component. Ebikes should too. Like an earlier poster, I also run a Hope rear hub. The noise it makes quite effectively allows one's presence to be advertised.

fall any fall line

Sept. 8, 2015, 3:54 p.m.
Posts: 391
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Is there a USB connector for my iThing?

Sept. 8, 2015, 4:49 p.m.
Posts: 5635
Joined: Oct. 28, 2008

It's the torque that electric engines put out. That shit will rip the hell out of the trails. I have no problem with them as commuter bikes though. In fact it's a great idea and one I'm considering for my 30k each way commute.

Wrong. Always.

Sept. 8, 2015, 6:37 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 7, 2006

Agreed.

fall any fall line

Sept. 11, 2015, 9:02 p.m.
Posts: 3549
Joined: May 23, 2006

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/09/11/counterpoint-marc-basilieres-take-on-e-bike-trail-access/#more-109968

Freedom of contract. We sell them guns that kill them; they sell us drugs that kill us.

Sept. 11, 2015, 11:20 p.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/09/11/counterpoint-marc-basilieres-take-on-e-bike-trail-access/#more-109968

really good

Sept. 11, 2015, 11:42 p.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

really good

One of the comments….

I have an e-bike. I don’t ride it any longer. I’m 61 and started riding 6 years ago with my kids and friends half my age. It was a stepping stone to getting fit. Now I would much rather spend the same money that e-bikes cost on carbon lightness. They are so much more fun to ride once the trail points down than the heavy e-bikes. I also used to ride moto off road for years and one of my favorite things about MTB vs moto is how much better the condition of the trails are. Horses are really hard on trails and motorcycles aren’t far behind. I’d hate to have trails torn up.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Sept. 11, 2015, 11:53 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 7, 2006

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/09/11/counterpoint-marc-basilieres-take-on-e-bike-trail-access/#more-109968

Yes, very interesting. Lots of good thoughts, but a little difficult to pull out what is essential to the issue.

On one point though, for the ebike marketers and those who say it will help the physically disadvantaged: the argument doesn't stand up. I can put this one simply: if that is the point, start selling ebikes that contribute extra power only up to the limit of an average physically fit rider. There goes the zoom zoom. There goes the sales. And ultimately, there goes the whole idea. But of course that is not what they are doing. The percentage increases discussed in that interview are rediculous in the context of mountain biking and hiking trails. The power of what is being marketed only makes sense in terms of generating speed, power and thrills. Sounds like the territory of moto, quads, snowmobiles and so on. Their arguments are insulting bullshit, against which, we should give plenty of push back.

Ebikes are motorbikes plain and simple. This is really about companies trying to create markets. My sympathy is lost. Ebikes are a great idea on roadways which accomodate other motorized vehicles. The market should be those people who bike commute, and otherwise use bikes to get around. That is the only context in which they might find a legitimate place alongside bicycles.

fall any fall line

Sept. 12, 2015, 9:23 a.m.
Posts: 1477
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

Good article. Thanks. Really miffed to hear that there is that much weight behind advocating for e-bikes to be ridden on trail.

Are there really organized advocates that don't understand the basic issue of trail access that mountain bikers face? As a community we've been bleeding over this issue from the beginning. Getting along with other user groups, protecting our fragile ribbons of singletrack, getting along with land managers, these are the issues that are absolutely at our heart and soul.

The "for" arguments in that article really underline the need to ban the holy beejeezus out of these motorized bikes. Before the landmanagers take things into their own hands. The types that are advocating for this and would be tearing around on e-bikes need to be kept off our trails, in no uncertain terms.

https://nsmba.ca/product-category/memberships/

Sept. 12, 2015, 12:27 p.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

Good article. Thanks. Really miffed to hear that there is that much weight behind advocating for e-bikes to be ridden on trail.

Are there really organized advocates that don't understand the basic issue of trail access that mountain bikers face? As a community we've been bleeding over this issue from the beginning. Getting along with other user groups, protecting our fragile ribbons of singletrack, getting along with land managers, these are the issues that are absolutely at our heart and soul.

The "for" arguments in that article really underline the need to ban the holy beejeezus out of these motorized bikes. Before the landmanagers take things into their own hands. The types that are advocating for this and would be tearing around on e-bikes need to be kept off our trails, in no uncertain terms.

To the average person they will only see the motor and lump it all together. Then we are back to about 30 years ao when groups like the Sierra Club tried to claim mountain bikes where motorized and get us banned. This will only start it again and make it easier to start selling this view.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Sept. 12, 2015, 2:05 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 7, 2006

I completely understand that last two posts. I share their concerns about ebikes creating problems for all of us regarding trail access. Our organizations should address this issue; and as I noted earlier, get out ahead of it to nip it in the bud.

However, I am not overly concerned, and this is why. I am pretty sure that access rights for mountain biking are well established. This is not the early days. There is now a high level of governmental support based on their promotion of recreation and tourism and the fact that they know there is a sizeable and broad portion of their constuancy involved in this activity. It has also been proven that mountain biking does not tear trails to shreds, and that the mtb community are good trail stewards. And in spite of the odd user conflict, walkers and hikers are happy enough to share trails with mountain bikers.

Its because of all of this, along with what local governments actually say, that I am pretty confident that they will have no problem distinguishing between bikes and ebikes. They are simply too informed at this stage of things. If our fears are realized, I think every stakeholder will recognize that ebikes alone are the problem. For example, I think most hikers would say something like: I'm used to the mountain bikers and I am fine shareing the trail these days. But there have been motorized bikes showing up. They go too fast and the damage the trails. They need to go.

Now I think you are correct that the average joe will lump them all together. After all, the mountain bike based ebikes look very very much like standard mountainbikes. But the average joe doesn't care about any of this and is not a factor. If the average joe takes up mountain biking or e-mountainbiking, they will (like we all did) quickly become informed.

fall any fall line

Sept. 12, 2015, 9:10 p.m.
Posts: 1477
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

I completely understand that last two posts. I share their concerns about ebikes creating problems for all of us regarding trail access. Our organizations should address this issue; and as I noted earlier, get out ahead of it to nip it in the bud.

However, I am not overly concerned, and this is why. I am pretty sure that access rights for mountain biking are well established. This is not the early days. There is now a high level of governmental support based on their promotion of recreation and tourism and the fact that they know there is a sizeable and broad portion of their constuancy involved in this activity. It has also been proven that mountain biking does not tear trails to shreds, and that the mtb community are good trail stewards. And in spite of the odd user conflict, walkers and hikers are happy enough to share trails with mountain bikers.

Its because of all of this, along with what local governments actually say, that I am pretty confident that they will have no problem distinguishing between bikes and ebikes. They are simply too informed at this stage of things. If our fears are realized, I think every stakeholder will recognize that ebikes alone are the problem. For example, I think most hikers would say something like: I'm used to the mountain bikers and I am fine shareing the trail these days. But there have been motorized bikes showing up. They go too fast and the damage the trails. They need to go.

Now I think you are correct that the average joe will lump them all together. After all, the mountain bike based ebikes look very very much like standard mountainbikes. But the average joe doesn't care about any of this and is not a factor. If the average joe takes up mountain biking or e-mountainbiking, they will (like we all did) quickly become informed.

Ok, so far been with you. But this last post…

If I'm reading this right: Access rights no longer an issue, erosion studies accepted common knowledge, no hiker conflict, nobody will lump us with other used groups to ban us, the uninformed average Joe won't take the other side?

Most of this could be soundly disproved just by scrolling through the topics on this board alone. Better yet spend a minute looking through mtb history, and then boning up on the current issues mtb'ers are facing. Or even a moment of reflection would be enough for the average mountain biker I'd think.

How about: Ernie Crist (rip), Monica, the war in the woods, the chainsaw massacre, new hiker parking lot, and what does NSMBA do? The Sierra Club, militant environmental groups, the trail shutdown in Portland, the petions we've all signed to keep trails open, the fight for National Park access, etc, etc. Off the top of my head anyhow.

Hell, even my own forgotten unused little trail took years of neighborhood meetings and trail maintenance to keep open. And even then we were shut down, for most of the reasons you listed in the post above as non-issues.

Ok, anyhow. Sorry Eco, you seem like a good bloke.

Moving on. Shut them down now. Let the offroad e-bikers figure out their own issues, before they get lumped in with us and they become our issues. Let them figure out user conflict, trail impact studies, etc. Common sense says there's no way. But let them figure it out, and somewhere far away from the mtb and hiking trails.

I think the BLM in Moab got it right. Posted signs on trails banning e-bikes:

"The Moab BLM has determined that motor assisted bicycles (electric, gas or diesel) are motorized vehicles. Use of motor assisted bicycles is only allowed on motorized trails. Please visit the motorized recreation pages for trail information. The use of motor assisted bicycles is NOT allowed on mountain bike trails."

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Sept. 12, 2015, 10:11 p.m.
Posts: 3549
Joined: May 23, 2006

Good article. Thanks. Really miffed to hear that there is that much weight behind advocating for e-bikes to be ridden on trail.

.

Last two Bicycling Mags have had articles advocating e-bikes.

Boycott them.

Freedom of contract. We sell them guns that kill them; they sell us drugs that kill us.

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