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The first e-bikes of the season riding up Mountain Highway

Aug. 29, 2017, 12:07 p.m.
Posts: 11904
Joined: June 4, 2008

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: ReductiMat

Do lift-accessed trails at bike parks need more maintenance than non-lift-accessed trails?

lol - you just failed at your own logic game

That is actually a question, not a logic game.

Logic game

Aug. 29, 2017, 12:37 p.m.
Posts: 1623
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: ReductiMat

That is actually a question, not a logic game.

I read it as a rhetorical/sarcastic question as you are often apt to do and replied in consideration of the number of comments you make wrt to reasoning and psych.


 Last edited by: syncro on Aug. 29, 2017, 12:39 p.m., edited 3 times in total.
Aug. 29, 2017, 1:29 p.m.
Posts: 290
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: Sethimus

i never even sat on one dude, i live in berlin, there are no mountains here, at all. my fun these days are cyclocross bikes. i just work for a company that sells them while studying horticulture and needing to pay the bills. i dont even want to be in this industry any more as it just sucks. be it from the media side or now on the industry side, i've seen both. but e-bikes are here and they are staying, even more when the technology is shrinking more and more. and from my perspective there is no direct impact on trails just by having a motor instead of using your own legs to power your vehicle. at least with pedelecs, which are the only bikes that are legal here. electric mx bikes is what you should be concerned by, not some low powered e-bike...

Everyone has their reasons. The ebike industry is really happy you are here on a forum half way around the world telling us how it is. How to be cool, the bikes are here to stay etc. You are doing terrific.

Aug. 29, 2017, 2:38 p.m.
Posts: 2255
Joined: April 2, 2005

Posted by: bux-bux

Posted by: Sethimus

i never even sat on one dude, i live in berlin, there are no mountains here, at all. my fun these days are cyclocross bikes. i just work for a company that sells them while studying horticulture and needing to pay the bills. i dont even want to be in this industry any more as it just sucks. be it from the media side or now on the industry side, i've seen both. but e-bikes are here and they are staying, even more when the technology is shrinking more and more. and from my perspective there is no direct impact on trails just by having a motor instead of using your own legs to power your vehicle. at least with pedelecs, which are the only bikes that are legal here. electric mx bikes is what you should be concerned by, not some low powered e-bike...

Everyone has their reasons. The ebike industry is really happy you are here on a forum half way around the world telling us how it is. How to be cool, the bikes are here to stay etc. You are doing terrific.

yeah i joined in 2005 just to wait till i can preach e-bikes here in 2017. who are you again?

Aug. 29, 2017, 9:36 p.m.
Posts: 11904
Joined: June 4, 2008

Posted by: Sethimus

how do you feel when you pedal up a shuttle road and some freeriders in their trucks are passing by? same feelings as towards this guy? or is this "cool" in your world because that's how you grew up in the mtb world?

Really though, do trails wear more when up-lifts are present, or do they wear the same in a given time period regardless?

Aug. 29, 2017, 9:49 p.m.
Posts: 203
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: grambo

^^^ This and bux-bux last post. Agree 100%. I was just in the Chilcotins and the guides I talked to did not seem stoked on ebikes in terms of trail impact and risk of unprepared folks getting into remote areas beyond their self rescue ability (bike battery dies, no fitness to push 50lbs up a hill... no cell coverage).

An ebike is not going to be practical for anything more than a single day ride in the Chilcotins. Someone might be able to stretch that to two days with judicious use of the system, but I don't them getting much beyond that.

Why not? What's to stop a group from flying in with a small generator to recharge their batteries?

Aug. 29, 2017, 9:54 p.m.
Posts: 1623
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: skooks
Why not? What's to stop a group from flying in with a small generator to recharge their batteries?

Yeah nothing really and I suggested something like that as a possibility in an earlier post. However, unless you have a hired guide who's going to pack the generator around for you you'd be limited to riding out of that one drop location. It's possible, but probably not all that likely imo. Not only does it mean packing the genny, but also the fuel to run it.


 Last edited by: syncro on Aug. 29, 2017, 9:55 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Aug. 29, 2017, 10:07 p.m.
Posts: 203
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Sounds like a totally workable strategy for a group that is serious about ebiking in the back country. I hope you are right that it doesn't happen but would not be at all surprised when it does.

Aug. 29, 2017, 10:32 p.m.
Posts: 1623
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: skooks

Sounds like a totally workable strategy for a group that is serious about ebiking in the back country. I hope you are right that it doesn't happen but would not be at all surprised when it does.

Oh for sure. Don't get me wrong,  I think that there will be people thinking about it and eventually doing it but I don't think the numbers will be high enough though to cause any sort of great panic about the wilderness getting over-run. Even with ebikes, doing something like a multiday tour in the Chilcotins is not an easy feat.

Aug. 30, 2017, 3:55 a.m.
Posts: 2
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: Sethimus

i never even sat on one dude, i live in berlin, there are no mountains here, at all. my fun these days are cyclocross bikes. i just work for a company that sells them while studying horticulture and needing to pay the bills. i dont even want to be in this industry any more as it just sucks. be it from the media side or now on the industry side, i've seen both. but e-bikes are here and they are staying, even more when the technology is shrinking more and more. and from my perspective there is no direct impact on trails just by having a motor instead of using your own legs to power your vehicle. at least with pedelecs, which are the only bikes that are legal here. electric mx bikes is what you should be concerned by, not some low powered e-bike...

I would like to challenge the bolded statement. It's been doing rounds, everybody in bike business is spouting it without any reservations.

My honest opinion is that the e-bike will find it's niche(s) and that's it.

One of those niches is certainly commuting. I'm all for it, replacing ICE cars with an e-bike, you have less congestion, less pollution and a fitter user. Honestly I don't see a downside to that one. This is also the segment that is generating the biggest number of sales, and those numbers are extrapolated shamelessly on to the other segments. However commuters need bikes that are cheap, bulletproof and last looong time - you can't make extra profits on that one.

There's a segment I call summer holiday bike, where an older (+40) couple buys 2 matching ebikes and make a holiday out of it. As you never know what kind of roads you will be riding on, it doesnt hurt to buy a little sturdier bike, maybe even a mtb (as the salesman suggests) and you end up with a 150mm e-fully riding (at most) the gravel roads. As these sales are not utility driven, but rather expendable income driven, you can make a killing on those as a bike company. But as far as I can see, the companies don't get who is actually buying these bikes so far. The marketing efforts suggests that they think those bikes are being bought by "serious" mountain bikers (readers of nsmb, pinkbike etc) who actually use their bikes on a regular basis hence the need of replacing them at much closer intervals. The actual numbers sold over the long time will be much, much lower.

The segment of e-mtbs for bros that the majority of mtb community is so afraid of, is preeety preeety* tiny. First of all those bikes are prohibitively expensive, second if you can afford a bike this expensive wouldn't you rather buy a regular bike for the same money and third, if you can afford it, chances are you work all day for it and not a lot of time left to ruin the reputation of the mtb community at large. And another thing - this segment is stealing your own customers, you're not gaining new ones, you're just converting existing customers to e-customers.

So to sum up, bike industry - scale back on the pushing of these e-mtbs, it won't pay as handsomely as you might think.

Just my 2 cents based on anecdotal evidence. I have been wrong before, maybe I am now too.

*coming october 1st

Aug. 31, 2017, 3:46 a.m.
Posts: 2255
Joined: April 2, 2005

Posted by: zigak

Posted by: Sethimus

i never even sat on one dude, i live in berlin, there are no mountains here, at all. my fun these days are cyclocross bikes. i just work for a company that sells them while studying horticulture and needing to pay the bills. i dont even want to be in this industry any more as it just sucks. be it from the media side or now on the industry side, i've seen both. but e-bikes are here and they are staying, even more when the technology is shrinking more and more. and from my perspective there is no direct impact on trails just by having a motor instead of using your own legs to power your vehicle. at least with pedelecs, which are the only bikes that are legal here. electric mx bikes is what you should be concerned by, not some low powered e-bike...

I would like to challenge the bolded statement. It's been doing rounds, everybody in bike business is spouting it without any reservations.

My honest opinion is that the e-bike will find it's niche(s) and that's it.

One of those niches is certainly commuting. I'm all for it, replacing ICE cars with an e-bike, you have less congestion, less pollution and a fitter user. Honestly I don't see a downside to that one. This is also the segment that is generating the biggest number of sales, and those numbers are extrapolated shamelessly on to the other segments. However commuters need bikes that are cheap, bulletproof and last looong time - you can't make extra profits on that one.

There's a segment I call summer holiday bike, where an older (+40) couple buys 2 matching ebikes and make a holiday out of it. As you never know what kind of roads you will be riding on, it doesnt hurt to buy a little sturdier bike, maybe even a mtb (as the salesman suggests) and you end up with a 150mm e-fully riding (at most) the gravel roads. As these sales are not utility driven, but rather expendable income driven, you can make a killing on those as a bike company. But as far as I can see, the companies don't get who is actually buying these bikes so far. The marketing efforts suggests that they think those bikes are being bought by "serious" mountain bikers (readers of nsmb, pinkbike etc) who actually use their bikes on a regular basis hence the need of replacing them at much closer intervals. The actual numbers sold over the long time will be much, much lower.

The segment of e-mtbs for bros that the majority of mtb community is so afraid of, is preeety preeety* tiny. First of all those bikes are prohibitively expensive, second if you can afford a bike this expensive wouldn't you rather buy a regular bike for the same money and third, if you can afford it, chances are you work all day for it and not a lot of time left to ruin the reputation of the mtb community at large. And another thing - this segment is stealing your own customers, you're not gaining new ones, you're just converting existing customers to e-customers.

So to sum up, bike industry - scale back on the pushing of these e-mtbs, it won't pay as handsomely as you might think.

Just my 2 cents based on anecdotal evidence. I have been wrong before, maybe I am now too.

*coming october 1st

total bike market in germany down 2,2% over 2016 so far, e-bikes are up by 12%:

https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/E-Bike-Markt-waechst-trotz-ruecklaeufiger-Fahrrad-Verkaufszahlen-3816617.html

your argument is invalid


 Last edited by: Sethimus on Aug. 31, 2017, 3:47 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Aug. 31, 2017, 11:30 a.m.
Posts: 1623
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Sethimus

total bike market in germany down 2,2% over 2016 so far, e-bikes are up by 12%:

Well to be fair we're talking about mtb's and pedelecs here, not all ebikes. I think most people who are against ebikes of any sort on the trails are ok with and probably even support the idea of ebikes on the streets, especially when it comes to commuting. Your stats fall outside of the discussion with respect to ebikes on the trails. I do agree though that the market for e-mtb's is growing and will continue to do so, but to say where it will end up is a premature.

ps - fuck this forum editor, it sucks donkey ballz.


 Last edited by: syncro on Aug. 31, 2017, 11:31 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Aug. 31, 2017, 2:52 p.m.
Posts: 1298
Joined: March 18, 2017

I saw some real tomfuckery going on during my commute this am. 

Two vehicles heading way off the beaten path to setup for an e-bike shuttle retrieval.  I'm most curious if they're able to e-bike up the approach trail?  I can't see how push, pull and dragging 50+lbs of e-bike up there would be any type of enjoyment!  E-biking up the approach trail might very well put them into trials moto territory?  A few weeks ago, one of these said e-bikers shaved almost 2:00 off a KOM climb I've held for a few years; so these aren't the grocery getters one is lead to believe.  

IMO the line was drawn in the sand a few years back.  Those poised to make a buck off e-bikes, and the rest of us.

Aug. 31, 2017, 3:05 p.m.
Posts: 290
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: zigak

Posted by: Sethimus

i never even sat on one dude, i live in berlin, there are no mountains here, at all. my fun these days are cyclocross bikes. i just work for a company that sells them while studying horticulture and needing to pay the bills. i dont even want to be in this industry any more as it just sucks. be it from the media side or now on the industry side, i've seen both. but e-bikes are here and they are staying, even more when the technology is shrinking more and more. and from my perspective there is no direct impact on trails just by having a motor instead of using your own legs to power your vehicle. at least with pedelecs, which are the only bikes that are legal here. electric mx bikes is what you should be concerned by, not some low powered e-bike...

I would like to challenge the bolded statement. It's been doing rounds, everybody in bike business is spouting it without any reservations.

My honest opinion is that the e-bike will find it's niche(s) and that's it.

One of those niches is certainly commuting. I'm all for it, replacing ICE cars with an e-bike, you have less congestion, less pollution and a fitter user. Honestly I don't see a downside to that one. This is also the segment that is generating the biggest number of sales, and those numbers are extrapolated shamelessly on to the other segments. However commuters need bikes that are cheap, bulletproof and last looong time - you can't make extra profits on that one.

There's a segment I call summer holiday bike, where an older (+40) couple buys 2 matching ebikes and make a holiday out of it. As you never know what kind of roads you will be riding on, it doesnt hurt to buy a little sturdier bike, maybe even a mtb (as the salesman suggests) and you end up with a 150mm e-fully riding (at most) the gravel roads. As these sales are not utility driven, but rather expendable income driven, you can make a killing on those as a bike company. But as far as I can see, the companies don't get who is actually buying these bikes so far. The marketing efforts suggests that they think those bikes are being bought by "serious" mountain bikers (readers of nsmb, pinkbike etc) who actually use their bikes on a regular basis hence the need of replacing them at much closer intervals. The actual numbers sold over the long time will be much, much lower.

The segment of e-mtbs for bros that the majority of mtb community is so afraid of, is preeety preeety* tiny. First of all those bikes are prohibitively expensive, second if you can afford a bike this expensive wouldn't you rather buy a regular bike for the same money and third, if you can afford it, chances are you work all day for it and not a lot of time left to ruin the reputation of the mtb community at large. And another thing - this segment is stealing your own customers, you're not gaining new ones, you're just converting existing customers to e-customers.

So to sum up, bike industry - scale back on the pushing of these e-mtbs, it won't pay as handsomely as you might think.

Just my 2 cents based on anecdotal evidence. I have been wrong before, maybe I am now too.

*coming october 1st

total bike market in germany down 2,2% over 2016 so far, e-bikes are up by 12%:

https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/E-Bike-Markt-waechst-trotz-ruecklaeufiger-Fahrrad-Verkaufszahlen-3816617.html

your argument is invalid

Great post!

It's in German. So let me translate... Vee really like ze electrik bikes ya? Vee can plug zem in to das radio players and litzen to ze Kraftwerk.

FLACHWICHSER


 Last edited by: bux-bux on Aug. 31, 2017, 3:10 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Aug. 31, 2017, 3:11 p.m.
Posts: 90
Joined: March 2, 2011

On Pinkbike’s eFailure

http://blistergearreview.com/featured/pinkbikes-efailure

This get posted yet?

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