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The first e-bikes of the season riding up Mountain Highway

Aug. 16, 2017, 10:26 p.m.
Posts: 315
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Posted by: gotham

Pumps are bullshit. Sawyer Gravity filter, I use mine everyday. Every. Day.

Good call....also a small pre-mix of chlorine dioxide is light, easy to pack and reliable....used it in a through hike in the Sierra and it;s part of my backcountry emergency kit.

Aug. 16, 2017, 10:28 p.m.
Posts: 315
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Posted by: PaulB

Posted by: Ddean

Pretty soon guys are going to be riding up Espresso! 🤣 Faster than going across Bp to Mtn highway if you want to do another Espresso lap!

The last time I rode Espresso, while I was sitting on the bench at the entrance having a snack, two guys came up it. They didn't seem at all concerned that they had come up a descent trail.

I'm partly guilty of that. "partly" because I will occasionally ride the original Expresso entrance and then get out at the connection to the new Expresso....what is that? About 100m? yes...I always look to see if anyone is coming.

So maybe the folks you are seeing are not riding up Expresso?


 Last edited by: mudrunner on Aug. 16, 2017, 10:29 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Aug. 17, 2017, 7:55 a.m.
Posts: 222
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Quote from GearJunkie website.

https://gearjunkie.com/specialized-turbo-levo-fsr-e-bike-opinion

"The Turbo FSR is like Ferrari’s take on a tank with the heart of a ninja. We rode the Turbo FSR up an old logging road in the muddy woods on the Oregon coast. As soon as I pushed my first down stroke, the pedal assist kicked in, as did my ear-to-ear grin.I zoomed uphill with post-spinach consumption Popeye power. After we splashed around in rain puddles, we made our way to the beach. The battery tops out at 20 mph but you can pedal past that limit. As I cruised at lightning speed through sandy potholes filled with salt water, I barked out, “This is flippin’ awesome!”

So 30km an hour going uphill? Can go faster? Yeah pendelecs are way different than throttle ebikes..... Motorized is motorized.


 Last edited by: bux-bux on Aug. 17, 2017, 8 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Aug. 17, 2017, 11:19 a.m.
Posts: 99
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: bux-bux

Quote from GearJunkie website.

https://gearjunkie.com/specialized-turbo-levo-fsr-e-bike-opinion

"The Turbo FSR is like Ferrari’s take on a tank with the heart of a ninja. We rode the Turbo FSR up an old logging road in the muddy woods on the Oregon coast. As soon as I pushed my first down stroke, the pedal assist kicked in, as did my ear-to-ear grin.I zoomed uphill with post-spinach consumption Popeye power. After we splashed around in rain puddles, we made our way to the beach. The battery tops out at 20 mph but you can pedal past that limit. As I cruised at lightning speed through sandy potholes filled with salt water, I barked out, “This is flippin’ awesome!”

So 30km an hour going uphill? Can go faster? Yeah pendelecs are way different than throttle ebikes..... Motorized is motorized.

While pedelec motors are power and speed limited by law, you're right that you can go faster than the 32km/hr by pedaling hard in a high gear. Sometimes that could be much faster on say a downhill trail just like you could do on a normal bike too. Then again, sometimes you can't simply go very fast due to the trail design even if you were on a throttle controlled ebike that could go 64km/hr on flat ground without pedaling. So what is it specifically that you don't like about ebikes? Is it just that they can go faster uphill than you can do on your own and that you might get passed by someone else?

All I hear are basically two arguments; either "But they're motorized!" or "Some asshole on one will cause problems".  Both of those boil down to "I don't like them, so ban them!" Surely it's possible to come up with a better argument than that?

Aug. 17, 2017, 12:50 p.m.
Posts: 222
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Syncro, I could care less if someone wants to ride an electric bike because it's uncomfortable, too hard, I'm outta shape I don't have time, what have you.  Sorry I don't get uppity when someone passes me. I usually say hello.

Just pointing out that it's motorized, and motorized is not permitted.

There is major battles going on in the States.... Norway has said no, Moab No.... Battles here too on this forum, that's why that makes these so great .  Nice try with the amateur psychoanalysis, the reason I don't like them, is because I don't wanna lose what we have worked to hard for to this point. I could care less about the gadget geeks who are going to buy these things. When it could possibly shut down trail systems access, it affects me and that's why I am against it.

That's all.

Aug. 17, 2017, 1:56 p.m.
Posts: 99
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: bux-bux

Syncro, I could care less if someone wants to ride an electric bike because it's uncomfortable, too hard, I'm outta shape I don't have time, what have you.  Sorry I don't get uppity when someone passes me. I usually say hello.

Just pointing out that it's motorized, and motorized is not permitted.

There is major battles going on in the States.... Norway has said no, Moab No.... Battles here too on this forum, that's why that makes these so great .  Nice try with the amateur psychoanalysis, the reason I don't like them, is because I don't wanna lose what we have worked to hard for to this point. I could care less about the gadget geeks who are going to buy these things. When it could possibly shut down trail systems access, it affects me and that's why I am against it.

That's all.

It wasn't meant as psychoanalysis, I'm really trying to get to the core of the hatred some people have against ebikes. I think if we consider the non-motorized regulations as they are currently written it makes sense to recognize that when they were written pedelecs weren't on the radar and probably didn't figure into the conversation. From that standpoint it then makes sense to debate whether pedelecs fit into the definition of motorized as originally intended when the regulations/laws were written. Regulations/laws being re-written as science and understanding evolves is not rare, so it may be that we need to reconsider how pedelecs fit into the existing regulations and whether those regs need to be changed.

For now, I think the rationale that ebikes are going to shut down trail systems access to all mountain bikes is being VASTLY overstated. If anything, we'd first see a clarification on the regs from the LM's and then a ban on ebikes well before we'd see any sort of ban on mountain biking altogether.

Aug. 17, 2017, 4:09 p.m.
Posts: 315
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Posted by: syncro

...

For now, I think the rationale that ebikes are going to shut down trail systems access to all mountain bikes is being VASTLY overstated. If anything, we'd first see a clarification on the regs from the LM's and then a ban on ebikes well before we'd see any sort of ban on mountain biking altogether.

I am somewhat in agreement here. 

Current LMs have the advantage of hindsight, having dealt with the growth of mountain bikes over the years...something that the original onslaught did not get a chance to defend (refer to the early 80's Sierra Club ban of all mechanical transportation in designated wilderness areas that is in effect to this day and it includes wheelchairs in US National Parks). I would give them  the benefit of the doubt that they may differentiate between assisted/motorised and non-assisted mountain bikes.

However, enforcing the issue will be the crux. As someone else had mentioned, it will be increasingly difficult and somewhat costly to verify compliance. Who will do it? Who will pay for enforcing compliance? User fees? My bet is that it will be easier for LMs (specially the smaller independent types) to shut it all down. Thinking of Elfin Lakes as a prime example of a scenic non-technical ride with some great views and a bit of a climb that would be a logical draw for the electro-tourist...BC Parks are already stretched. What are there? something like 4 rangers total for the entire Sea to Sky to Valley area? What about absentee land owners, right-of-ways, etc...?

Considering everything, the easiest thing to do for an LM to do would be to throw the baby out with the bathwater and ban the whole lot. Granted, it's a worst case scenario, but if you;re not prepared for worst-case, you are not prepared.

What's my personal concern (aside from potential trail closures)?

Back to my Chilcotins concern from a few posts ago. It's gaining popularity among the back country bike tour set and it  would seem like  electro-tourism would provide a larger following. I'm sure a lot of people would enjoy a low-key tour of a spectacular part of the province, but would not look forward to the commitment of all that vertical. With growth comes "crowds" and the loss of remoteness. That could be remedied by a user limit somewhat like Bowron Lakes or West Coast Trail.... but some wilderness experiences should remain somewhat challenging...or the reward is devalued. Imagine Bowron Lakes with E-Paddles, or West Coast Trail with off-road Heelies.

A bit far-fetched, maybe...but I think you get my point.

Aug. 17, 2017, 8:13 p.m.
Posts: 663
Joined: March 9, 2005

Thin edge of the wedge  bud.

Aug. 18, 2017, 2:18 a.m.
Posts: 2059
Joined: April 2, 2005

Posted by: dutch

What would you call this?

moped?

Aug. 18, 2017, 2:24 a.m.
Posts: 2059
Joined: April 2, 2005

to the haters:

does an ebike wear a trail down more/faster/whatever?
does it pollute the environment?
does it make noise?
does it disturb wildlife more than a normal mtb?
what exactly is different to a normal mtb other than one is powered by electric energy instead of human energy?
why exactly should they not be allowed out there? because then more people will crowd your favourite trails?
what are you afraid of?

Aug. 18, 2017, 9:30 a.m.
Posts: 222
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohcwksrvDOg

Aug. 19, 2017, 2:35 a.m.
Posts: 2059
Joined: April 2, 2005

why would anyone ride down mtb trails with a monitor in front of their faces? and what has this to do with ebikes?

Aug. 22, 2017, 11:55 a.m.
Posts: 1511
Joined: July 11, 2014

Posted by: mudrunner

Posted by: syncro

...

For now, I think the rationale that ebikes are going to shut down trail systems access to all mountain bikes is being VASTLY overstated. If anything, we'd first see a clarification on the regs from the LM's and then a ban on ebikes well before we'd see any sort of ban on mountain biking altogether.

I am somewhat in agreement here. 

Current LMs have the advantage of hindsight, having dealt with the growth of mountain bikes over the years...something that the original onslaught did not get a chance to defend (refer to the early 80's Sierra Club ban of all mechanical transportation in designated wilderness areas that is in effect to this day and it includes wheelchairs in US National Parks). I would give them  the benefit of the doubt that they may differentiate between assisted/motorised and non-assisted mountain bikes.

However, enforcing the issue will be the crux. As someone else had mentioned, it will be increasingly difficult and somewhat costly to verify compliance. Who will do it? Who will pay for enforcing compliance? User fees? My bet is that it will be easier for LMs (specially the smaller independent types) to shut it all down. Thinking of Elfin Lakes as a prime example of a scenic non-technical ride with some great views and a bit of a climb that would be a logical draw for the electro-tourist...BC Parks are already stretched. What are there? something like 4 rangers total for the entire Sea to Sky to Valley area? What about absentee land owners, right-of-ways, etc...?

Considering everything, the easiest thing to do for an LM to do would be to throw the baby out with the bathwater and ban the whole lot. Granted, it's a worst case scenario, but if you;re not prepared for worst-case, you are not prepared.

What's my personal concern (aside from potential trail closures)?

Back to my Chilcotins concern from a few posts ago. It's gaining popularity among the back country bike tour set and it  would seem like  electro-tourism would provide a larger following. I'm sure a lot of people would enjoy a low-key tour of a spectacular part of the province, but would not look forward to the commitment of all that vertical. With growth comes "crowds" and the loss of remoteness. That could be remedied by a user limit somewhat like Bowron Lakes or West Coast Trail.... but some wilderness experiences should remain somewhat challenging...or the reward is devalued. Imagine Bowron Lakes with E-Paddles, or West Coast Trail with off-road Heelies.

A bit far-fetched, maybe...but I think you get my point.

^^^ This and bux-bux last post. Agree 100%. I was just in the Chilcotins and the guides I talked to did not seem stoked on ebikes in terms of trail impact and risk of unprepared folks getting into remote areas beyond their self rescue ability (bike battery dies, no fitness to push 50lbs up a hill... no cell coverage).

Aug. 22, 2017, noon
Posts: 188
Joined: June 28, 2011

There was an older dude riding an downhill electric v10 up the new mystic trail to the alpine in whistler yesterday. Our group (including one of the trail builders on LOTS which he'd be riding down) let him know the score.

I'm not totally against them at all and maybe when I'm older they would be a good option for me. But that was taking the piss IMO.

Aug. 22, 2017, 12:16 p.m.
Posts: 99
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: grambo

^^^ This and bux-bux last post. Agree 100%. I was just in the Chilcotins and the guides I talked to did not seem stoked on ebikes in terms of trail impact and risk of unprepared folks getting into remote areas beyond their self rescue ability (bike battery dies, no fitness to push 50lbs up a hill... no cell coverage).

An ebike is not going to be practical for anything more than a single day ride in the Chilcotins. Someone might be able to stretch that to two days with judicious use of the system, but I don't them getting much beyond that.

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