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The first e-bikes of the season riding up Mountain Highway

Aug. 15, 2017, 4:05 p.m.
Posts: 1511
Joined: July 11, 2014

Posted by: pete@nsmb.com

Posted by: bux-bux

A friend of mine did some business  with an unnamed Ebike company out of Whistler, the one with the batteries in the backpack. He did a full day on it and said he was shocked how fast and the amount of power on this thing has, Electric dirtbike was the description. They are all technically pedal assist, but they are full on motorized.

They are NOT 'all technically pedal assist' so let's just straighten that out. The Kranked bikes require you to wear a large battery on your back, which connects you to your bike (not nice) and the motor is operated by throttle. Pedelecs (aka pedal assist) which are the format of e-bike being introduced by most brands do not have a throttle, and the motor engages only when you pedal. There is a big difference in rider experience, and, most importantly, in the amount of torque delivered to the rear wheel. As much as you can argue that an e-bike is different than a mountain bike, a throttled bike is also different than a pedelec.

This differentiation can be part of the Ebike 101 Training session offered to land managers so they can ensure their staff at trail heads can ensure only pedal assist bikes are allowed on non-motorized trails. Ebike 102 Training will cover methods for identifying pedal assist ebikes which have aftermarket mods to increase their power or enable throttle. 

I see Kona is releasing an ebike but from the adventure bike/fishing/backcountry angle. Graham Aggasiz was complaining on his instagram that Pinkbike wouldn't run the piece on their homepage. Awesome.

Aug. 15, 2017, 5:18 p.m.
Posts: 663
Joined: March 9, 2005

I don't care how some government flunky defines it, it's really quite simple if it has a motor it's a motorbike and I really don't care how the industry hacks are trying to spin this, they do not belong on mountain bike trail anymore then any other motor bike.

Aug. 16, 2017, 4:27 a.m.
Posts: 2059
Joined: April 2, 2005

"those pesky snowboarders don't belong on my beloved skiing hills"

"those pesky mountainbikers don't belong on my beloved walking trails"

the NIMBYism is strong in this thread


 Last edited by: Sethimus on Aug. 16, 2017, 4:28 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Aug. 16, 2017, 12:30 p.m.
Posts: 100
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: wizardB

I don't care how some government flunky defines it, it's really quite simple if it has a motor it's a motorbike and I really don't care how the industry hacks are trying to spin this, they do not belong on mountain bike trail anymore then any other motor bike.

How can you honestly compare a gas powered dirt bike to a pedal assist mtb?

Aug. 16, 2017, 3:44 p.m.
Posts: 222
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: grambo

Posted by: pete@nsmb.com

Posted by: bux-bux

A friend of mine did some business with an unnamed Ebike company out of Whistler, the one with the batteries in the backpack. He did a full day on it and said he was shocked how fast and the amount of power on this thing has, Electric dirtbike was the description. They are all technically pedal assist, but they are full on motorized.

They are NOT 'all technically pedal assist' so let's just straighten that out. The Kranked bikes require you to wear a large battery on your back, which connects you to your bike (not nice) and the motor is operated by throttle. Pedelecs (aka pedal assist) which are the format of e-bike being introduced by most brands do not have a throttle, and the motor engages only when you pedal. There is a big difference in rider experience, and, most importantly, in the amount of torque delivered to the rear wheel. As much as you can argue that an e-bike is different than a mountain bike, a throttled bike is also different than a pedelec.

This differentiation can be part of the Ebike 101 Training session offered to land managers so they can ensure their staff at trail heads can ensure only pedal assist bikes are allowed on non-motorized trails. Ebike 102 Training will cover methods for identifying pedal assist ebikes which have aftermarket mods to increase their power or enable throttle.

I see Kona is releasing an ebike but from the adventure bike/fishing/backcountry angle. Graham Aggasiz was complaining on his instagram that Pinkbike wouldn't run the piece on their homepage. Awesome.

Are they going to put gates with inspectors below the new lot at Fromme or above?


 Last edited by: bux-bux on Aug. 16, 2017, 3:53 p.m., edited 3 times in total.
Aug. 16, 2017, 4:07 p.m.
Posts: 1511
Joined: July 11, 2014

Can you guys provide a solid counter-argument to the slippery slope land manager concerns around current weak pedal assist ebikes vs. technology improving power/batteries int he future and after market mods? Other than NIMBYism/snowboarder vs ski/"it's not a dirtbike"?

My current favourite ebike argument "they are fun! You just haven't tried one"

Aug. 16, 2017, 4:25 p.m.
Posts: 222
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: grambo

Can you guys provide a solid counter-argument to the slippery slope land manager concerns around current weak pedal assist ebikes vs. technology improving power/batteries int he future and after market mods? Other than NIMBYism/snowboarder vs ski/"it's not a dirtbike"?

My current favourite ebike argument "they are fun! You just haven't tried one"

Just have to say, if the electric motor is on the drivetrain which includes a manual crankset, it's electric assist. Pendelec is the industries way of trying to slide these things in. The difference between the motor engaging when you pedal and a button of throttle is nil. Its motorized, end of story.

Aug. 16, 2017, 4:48 p.m.
Posts: 100
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

most of the world seems to be calling this a bicycle, what do the denizens of NSMB say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&;v=WREyAicJXkM

Aug. 16, 2017, 6:02 p.m.
Posts: 100
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: grambo

Can you guys provide a solid counter-argument to the slippery slope land manager concerns around current weak pedal assist ebikes vs. technology improving power/batteries int he future and after market mods? Other than NIMBYism/snowboarder vs ski/"it's not a dirtbike"?

My current favourite ebike argument "they are fun! You just haven't tried one"

Ok I'll give this a whirl...

First I would say that it's important to distinguish between pedal assist or pedelecs  and throttle controlled bikes. I see a huge difference between a bike that doesn't need to be pedaled and has a throttle vs a bike that has to be pedaled in order for the motor to work.  In terms of pedelecs, I would not necessarily say they are weak in terms of power or batteries. Remember that they are limited in terms of power and operation by govt regulations. The current regs here in BC (and I believe Canada) limit the motor to 500 watts and not capable of propelling the bike more than 32km/hr wihout pedaling. That simply defines the capacity of the motor. The regs also state that the motor must disengage when the user stops pedaling. I doubt the manufacturers are going to surpass those regs as that would affect their ability to legally sell the bikes. They may add higher capacity batteries over time as battery tech improves to increase range, but In terms of increasing battery capacity there is a trade-off of higher weight/size and higher cost so I question how much of a concern that would be. If you want the regs they are here:

http://www.icbc.com/vehicle-registration/specialty-vehicles/Low-powered-vehicles/Pages/Electric-bikes.aspx

In terms of aftermarket mods the counterargument is they they are illegal or against the regs. I agree that doesn't mean nobody will do it, but in the same way whether pedelecs are allowed or not it's not going to stop some people from using them.  The question becomes what segment of ebike users are the illegal mod group going to represent? Is it enough that we restrict everyone from using ebikes? 

Your argument against ebike is based on a presumption that ebikes will wreak havoc on the trail network. Currently there is no evidence that this is true. That line of thinking seems to be entirely based on "asshole theory" that everyone who rides an ebike of any sort will act like a complete jackass. Even if you want to hold up an example that the few times you've seen ebikes the riders have been acting like jerks that doesn't translate to the entire population that may use ebike. So I'd ask you a similar question, what evidence do you have that ebikes are going to ruin mountain biking? Sure we can sit around and have a discussion based on conjecture about the potential issues ebikes can cause, but that doesn't translate into them actually being a major issue.

At the end of the day I see the negative effects pedelecs being no worse than dealing with the current crop of pinheads who cause problems on their mtb's.

Aug. 16, 2017, 6:03 p.m.
Posts: 90
Joined: March 2, 2011

What would you call this?

Aug. 16, 2017, 6:12 p.m.
Posts: 100
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

if people are going to use extreme examples that fall outside of the current conversation then is there any point in having it?

edit

if you really want to know what I'd call it, it's the beginning of motorcycling when people began to adapt gas engines to bicycles to create a new mode of transportation.


 Last edited by: syncro on Aug. 16, 2017, 6:15 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Aug. 16, 2017, 6:15 p.m.
Posts: 90
Joined: March 2, 2011

Posted by: syncro

most of the world seems to be calling this a bicycle, what do the denizens of NSMB say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&;v=WREyAicJXkM

Posted by: syncro

if people are going to use extreme examples that fall outside of the current conversation then is there any point in having it?

Aug. 16, 2017, 6:16 p.m.
Posts: 100
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

so what's your point? or did you miss the sarcasm?

Aug. 16, 2017, 6:17 p.m.
Posts: 90
Joined: March 2, 2011

Did you miss mine? :)

BCpov on YouTube

www.instagram.com/BCPov

www.facebook.com/BCpov

Aug. 16, 2017, 6:21 p.m.
Posts: 100
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: dutch

Did you miss mine? :)

hard to tell with the often aggressive/militant attitude against ebikes here

i'm still not sure what you're on about tbh


 Last edited by: syncro on Aug. 16, 2017, 6:22 p.m., edited 1 time in total.

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