the biggest mistake in mountain biking....

What a crock of chain lube. I do not think the riding in Squamish is any better than the shore. Not more diverse, not better maintained, not as gnar.

What Squamish has that we don't is extended low-angle terrain and a moderate countryside with more variation. The Shore is built on the mountainside. Squampton is built on the perimeter of mountains, lava-flows and logging roads.

The Shore is not as XC as Squampton, but every bit as good. Are we including Cypress, Fromme, Seymour And the nearby Burnaby Mtn, Burke etc. too?

Another reality - the trails in Squamish do not get anywhere near the traffic as the Shore. And that necessitates a different trail experience.

Everyone is right … so everyone please wake up and realize that whether a trail is "awesome" or "sucks" or "dumbed down" or "too hard" is totally your own perspective. As they say around Garibaldi Highlands, "One Man's Gold" is "Another Man's Garbage".

Everyone is right … so everyone please wake up and realize that whether a trail is "awesome" or "sucks" or "dumbed down" or "too hard" is totally your own perspective. As they say around Garibaldi Highlands, "One Man's Gold" is "Another Man's Garbage".

This.

This is happening in North Van too but the masses want the gold trails (that are ironically falling apart in dust now) and the masses will get what they want. Meanwhile anyone who builds outside the NSMBA Watchmen junta are derisively referred to as "Rogues" building unsanctioned and the NSMBA has no problem punching climbing trails through what were useable old trails. But hey, those were just unsanctioned loamers so who cares right?

But oh yeah go to Townhalls or talk to the directors and all will be well - right right?

Squamish and Whistler have riders who don't always agree but generally work together. North van is unique in having a trail organization who employed an egomaniacal program director paid fulltimer who actively works against other builders. Plus then a weak board of directors who lets egomaniac do what he wants. So everything official is made in one way. And anything unofficial is kept underground and off the map and called rogue.

Kram and slynx you have it good in Squampton. Flip Whistler is paradise. A few game cams to catch rogue builders ain't no big deal when you have to deal with Watchmen blackshirted wannabe trailbosses down here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE1ct5yEuVY
Going Underground and "the public want what the public get" seems appropos.

the biggest mistake in MTB? overdrive steertube / stems.

/end thread

Not sure if these count as fails in the MTB world but they were meant for off road use. :lol:

1999 Coker Monster Cruiser

1985 Sunkyong Bicycle Mower

Skewers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE1ct5yEuVY
Going Underground and "the public want what the public get" seems appropos.

Your work and Rob's were treated shamefully and with utmost disrespect by those who came later who had short or no memories. I'm truly sorry that happened. Thanks for the hundreds if not thousands of hours you put into the trails. If there's a silver lining your lawn now does look magnificent

What a crock of chain lube. I do not think the riding in Squamish is any better than the shore. Not more diverse, not better maintained, not as gnar.

First of all, I didn't say the riding on the shore sucks. I'm pretty sure the first thing I said is it does not suck. What I said is the riding in Squamish is good, and it is, and the trails incorporate a lot of rock rolls and other cool stuff, and they do, hence my comment on variety. Just an opinion. I don't ride Cypress, but I know how steep and rad it is there. I'm pretty sure Squamish has a lot more going for it than just good XC trails. Squamish also gets less riders, point taken.

On the shore (which does not include places like Burnaby Mtn or Burke), my perception right or wrong, is that the newly constructed rerouted revamped -sanctioned- trails on Fromme and Seymour all seem to follow a fairly narrow blueprint. What would be awesome is more middle ground stuff between mellow pedally flowy XC and Cypress style steeps and gnar, more Ladies Only's I guess. I think Squamish offers a pretty good amount of variety in that regard, but then again, the grass is always greener on the other side, so of course that might be coloring my perception.

Your work and Rob's were treated shamefully and with utmost disrespect by those who came later who had short or no memories. I'm truly sorry that happened. Thanks for the hundreds if not thousands of hours you put into the trails. If there's a silver lining your lawn now does look magnificent

This.

I met a German couple on the chairlift today who had come to BC to ride DH trails. A little later I met a guy who got on a plane with an exploded appendix who suffered through it for a chance to ride the west coast. Mountain biking doesn't need a pretty bow on it to sell it to people.

Maybe the best idea is if you want flow trails build new flow trails and leave the old lines for those that like them just as they are….not "new and improved"

Taking a page from the alpine world (climbing), the protocol is to respect the 1st-ascensionist's work [HTML_REMOVED] leave a route as it was originally done. Only the person who worked the route can make the decision to alter it.

Taking a page from the alpine world (climbing), the protocol is to respect the 1st-ascensionist's work [HTML_REMOVED] leave a route as it was originally done. Only the person who worked the route can make the decision to alter it.

this is something i've advocated for a while, but it hasn't happend. it can be challenging in some instances as the original builder has moved on and cannot be contacted. however, even in those cases it could or should still be put forward to the riding public to see if there is more desire to leave it as is or have minor fixes versus completely rebuilding the trail.

I met a German couple on the chairlift today who had come to BC to ride DH trails. A little later I met a guy who got on a plane with an exploded appendix who suffered through it for a chance to ride the west coast. Mountain biking doesn't need a pretty bow on it to sell it to people.

No it doesn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOuzU0vCqBk

You really feel that this is the biggest mistake in mountain biking, making sure there is riding available at all levels?

I understand the concern that a lot of people have in regards to smoothing out tech trails and I would be concerned if every trail was going that way. I think we do need more entry level stuff, AS WELL as more advanced stuff. A variety of tech, flow, greens, blues, blacks and double blacks wins in my book, rather than "harden up or move along" approach which would dramatically reduce land managers willingness to work with MTB. This does limit the land access as well as options for parts, bikes and services available and the price point they would be available at.

The sport is just gaining traction with land managers/owners and they need to ensure there is riding available for everyone. Once we have some boxes ticked, there will be more advanced trails developed in a lot of these areas, this is all pretty new to be a legit sport in many areas.

I think the division of the disciplines has caused us to all work independently, rather than as a whole, has been our sports biggest mistake. It ties into things like XC racing going Olympics which affects coaching programs, funding for athletes and events getting discipline specific, rather than discipline inclusive and celebrating all of them at events and festivals and with funding and grants.

Great piece by PB though and thanks for bringing discussion over here, it is a good one.

DB@EB

My kid is riding with Endless all this week. They've got him up Fromme, Seymour, and the WBP. He's 8. Im pretty sure that with their help he's going to be a good rider one day, but he's not starting on Ladies. No matter what the elitist trail snobs think.