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the biggest mistake in mountain biking....

July 8, 2015, 5:53 p.m.
Posts: 8935
Joined: Dec. 23, 2005

Kram lives in Squamish and I am pretty sure his complaints are about Squamish so it is also the worst place ever.

July 8, 2015, 6:10 p.m.
Posts: 618
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

You really feel that this is the biggest mistake in mountain biking, making sure there is riding available at all levels?

I understand the concern that a lot of people have in regards to smoothing out tech trails and I would be concerned if every trail was going that way. I think we do need more entry level stuff, AS WELL as more advanced stuff. A variety of tech, flow, greens, blues, blacks and double blacks wins in my book, rather than "harden up or move along" approach which would dramatically reduce land managers willingness to work with MTB. This does limit the land access as well as options for parts, bikes and services available and the price point they would be available at.

The sport is just gaining traction with land managers/owners and they need to ensure there is riding available for everyone. Once we have some boxes ticked, there will be more advanced trails developed in a lot of these areas, this is all pretty new to be a legit sport in many areas.

I think the division of the disciplines has caused us to all work independently, rather than as a whole, has been our sports biggest mistake. It ties into things like XC racing going Olympics which affects coaching programs, funding for athletes and events getting discipline specific, rather than discipline inclusive and celebrating all of them at events and festivals and with funding and grants.

Great piece by PB though and thanks for bringing discussion over here, it is a good one.

DB@EB

i don't personally feel this is the biggest mistake in mtb'ing but some of the thoughts expressed do resonate with me. i also took that bit with a grain of salt knowing the author like to be provocative and stir things up a bit.

i agree with you though that we do need a good mix of trails - so what is that mix? 20/40/4do we have that or are we close to it?

I'm not a human in real life, I just play one on the internet. 

July 8, 2015, 6:17 p.m.
Posts: 618
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Sorry if this is a dumb question that has already been discussed, but why does Squamish not have this problem? Why is the riding in Squamish so damn good?

i would guess it's because they have fewer jurisdictions to deal with and town generally has a different attitude when it comes to using the environment for recreation. you probably also have a higher percentage of the riding population involved in trail work and a lower overall number of riders. all of these things may lend to your sentiment that the riding in squamish is better.

I'm not a human in real life, I just play one on the internet. 

July 8, 2015, 6:18 p.m.
Posts: 663
Joined: March 9, 2005

Maybe the best idea is if you want flow trails build new flow trails and leave the old lines for those that like them just as they are….not "new and improved"

The raw, primitive, unrefined trails that see little to no maintenance are the kinds of trails that really build skill. What kind of skills do you learn riding a trail that was made by a machine, groomed to perfection and void of any rocks, roots or other obstacles that could send you careening over the handlebars?

July 8, 2015, 6:20 p.m.
Posts: 618
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

not directly at you, Kram…just the general sentiment. for decades the vast majority of trails and trail systems around the world, and specifically BC, have been heavily weighted towards the black/double black spectrum. So, yeah, it seems like a lot of effort is being placed on the beginner/intermediate spectrum because, we haven't had many of those trails and we have had a lot of work to do to add those to have a better balanced system.

the flip side (ha!) of that position though is that hard trails are what made riding in BC "famous", that was the big draw. people that have been riding a while will all tell you everyone had to cut their teeth the same way, in a challenging and sometimes painful manner and that was part of the allure.

I'm not a human in real life, I just play one on the internet. 

July 8, 2015, 6:45 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: June 6, 2012

Sorry if this is a dumb question that has already been discussed, but why does Squamish not have this problem? Why is the riding in Squamish so damn good?

I haven't ridden there enough, haven't even scratched the surface to be honest. But every time I go there I am amazed how awesome it is. For any and all types of rider, the variety of trails and diversity of terrain is impressive. What do they have that we don't? Is it a land jurisdiction issue?

Squamish and Whistler have riders who don't always agree but generally work together. North van is unique in having a trail organization who employed an egomaniacal program director paid fulltimer who actively works against other builders. Plus then a weak board of directors who lets egomaniac do what he wants. So everything official is made in one way. And anything unofficial is kept underground and off the map and called rogue.

Kram and slynx you have it good in Squampton. Flip Whistler is paradise. A few game cams to catch rogue builders ain't no big deal when you have to deal with Watchmen blackshirted wannabe trailbosses down here

Lee Lau

July 8, 2015, 7:52 p.m.
Posts: 351
Joined: March 4, 2013

Everything: clothing, cars, music all runs on a 20 year cycle, and on this we have about 10 maybe 15 years until the core stuff is "mainstream". I just hope my body is in enough shape to put up with it by then. Time will tell.

If there is anything I can agree to in this thread, it's this. It's only a matter of time before skinnies become cool again. Some of us are trying to get ahead of this curve.

July 9, 2015, 6:52 a.m.
Posts: 5635
Joined: Oct. 28, 2008

My god. Think of the children.
:)

Wrong. Always.

July 9, 2015, 10:10 a.m.
Posts: 8
Joined: Jan. 12, 2006

Squamish and Whistler have riders who don't always agree but generally work together. North van is unique in having a trail organization who employed an egomaniacal program director paid fulltimer who actively works against other builders. Plus then a weak board of directors who lets egomaniac do what he wants. So everything official is made in one way. And anything unofficial is kept underground and off the map and called rogue.

Kram and slynx you have it good in Squampton. Flip Whistler is paradise. A few game cams to catch rogue builders ain't no big deal when you have to deal with Watchmen blackshirted wannabe trailbosses down here

July 9, 2015, 2:48 p.m.
Posts: 9198
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Sponsel is just a shock jock for the MTB world. I cringe a little for just about everything he says. They only put him in that post because they know what he writes will get people talking…right or wrong they just want more people commenting on their site. Would I love it if he wrote for me…for sure, that shit get's views..haha…

I thought a few of the answers were very interesting, especially from the people who have been in the industry a long time. I miss the old MTB festivals. Not the big shit shows like Crankworx (Fun in its own way) but layed back, not in your face places to go and just enjoy riding bikes in the forest. Shit…I think my age is showing…haha.

July 9, 2015, 3:01 p.m.
Posts: 10077
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

I miss the old MTB festivals. Not the big shit shows like Crankworx (Fun in its own way) but layed back, not in your face places to go and just enjoy riding bikes in the forest. Shit…I think my age is showing…haha.

Go To Mountain Bike Oregon in Oakridge.

Or Kettle Fest outside of Kettle Falls, Washington (on now [HTML_REMOVED] this weekend).

I've also heard good things about the Evergreen one near Mount St. Helens although we haven't been yet.

Fruita Fat Tire Fest is also a blast, although it is towards the Crankworx style of event than a few I listed above.

July 9, 2015, 3:03 p.m.
Posts: 9198
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Go To Mountain Bike Oregon in Oakridge.

Or Kettle Fest outside of Kettle Falls, Washington (on now [HTML_REMOVED] this weekend).

I've also heard good things about the Evergreen one near Mount St. Helens although we haven't been yet.

Fruita Fat Tire Fest is also a blast, although it is towards the Crankworx style of event than a few I listed above.

We need something in BC like MBO…been on my mind for a while actually.

July 9, 2015, 3:08 p.m.
Posts: 10077
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

We need something in BC like MBO…been on my mind for a while actually.

Thought someone in Cumberland(?) was organizing one last year? Didn't hear much about it.

Need someone like RandyD. to spearhead the organization, a ton of work for a bunch of years to get to critical mass.

I think the BC Mountain Bike Tourism Association (likely have the name wrong) was talking about it. If you are serious, talk to MartinLJ.

July 9, 2015, 3:13 p.m.
Posts: 9198
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Thought someone in Cumberland(?) was organizing one last year? Didn't hear much about it.

Need someone like RandyD. to spearhead the organization, a ton of work for a bunch of years to get to critical mass.

I think the BC Mountain Bike Tourism Association (likely have the name wrong) was talking about it. If you are serious, talk to MartinLJ.

I wanted to chat about some other things with him…will add this to the list! :D

July 9, 2015, 3:58 p.m.
Posts: 133
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

What a crock of chain lube. I do not think the riding in Squamish is any better than the shore. Not more diverse, not better maintained, not as gnar.

What Squamish has that we don't is extended low-angle terrain and a moderate countryside with more variation. The Shore is built on the mountainside. Squampton is built on the perimeter of mountains, lava-flows and logging roads.

The Shore is not as XC as Squampton, but every bit as good. Are we including Cypress, Fromme, Seymour And the nearby Burnaby Mtn, Burke etc. too?

Another reality - the trails in Squamish do not get anywhere near the traffic as the Shore. And that necessitates a different trail experience.

and way more dispersed crown land

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