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TAP - Optional Lines

Dec. 5, 2012, 9:38 p.m.
Posts: 946
Joined: Dec. 1, 2002

Sorry if this has been covered already, but it is my understanding that the TAP builders are fully on board with structures, skinnies, etc - on the condition that they are not deceptive or dangerous simply for the sake of being dangerous. As Mr. Wood has stated in his lectures / trail days, there is acceptable danger which is inherent in the difficulty of the terrain, and there is unacceptable danger where a rider could be doing everything right and still get hurt - ie. the structure breaks or is very slippery and off-camber.

The trails being TAP'd are in their first stage of revitalization - make the trail safe and make the trail sustainable. The next stage would be to add back in structures and optional lines. It is true that the level of death-defying structures will probably never return to where it was before because of land owner involvement. But do not forget this involvement is crucial to the longevity of our trails. Sacrificing some of the gnar in order to rest easy knowing these trails will be here for you next year and the year after is a small price to pay. Also, it's worth noting that the land owner concerns relate to your own safety.

I think some creativity can be brought to the table to sneak really tough lines in, they just can't be the intuitive line. Digger (and other builders) do a pretty great job at creating multi-level sections where an advanced rider could jump over a whole section, or choose a specific line to make things tough. Creating multi-faceted trails like this is the art of trail building in my opinion.

So to sum it up, the plan is not and should not be to make everything a smooth flow trail. The plan is to get the trails to a point that they require minimal maintenance, and then tackle the fun parts - and the fun parts should maximize enjoyment while minimizing unnecessary danger. This is a reality that can't be avoided now that mountain biking has grown to the level that it has. We can't fly under the radar anymore.

Dec. 5, 2012, 9:39 p.m.
Posts: 18059
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

I find this interesting because I would have assumed that most people who are upset about losing the tech lines would be the folks that were good at riding them, not those that want to get good.

as someone who's been riding for some time and progresses rather slowly (unfortunately) i'm in both of those camps

Dec. 5, 2012, 9:41 p.m.
Posts: 18059
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

The trails being TAP'd are in their first stage of revitalization - make the trail safe and make the trail sustainable. The next stage would be to add back in structures and optional lines.

i was kind of under the impression that structures are done, in large part because they require maintenance (and the landowners don't like them).

but that's just a guess

Dec. 5, 2012, 9:57 p.m.
Posts: 18790
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Structures are done when they fall over and no one rebuilds them.

Dec. 5, 2012, 10 p.m.
Posts: 15758
Joined: May 29, 2004

Can we please have an optional line around the log on Boogieman, preferable on the ground and at least three feet wide? I forgot about that damn thing the other day and my 11 month pup and I nearly soiled our fur / pants trying to walk across it :lol:

Oh please befucking joking

…No offense,eh.

Pastor of Muppets

Dec. 5, 2012, 10:01 p.m.
Posts: 2906
Joined: June 15, 2006

Structures are done when they fall over and no one rebuilds them.

Oh look, you changed your picture. Now it looks like Schoenrocks?

This trip to Kelowna was definately an undertaking - Liam and I had been planning this project for 24 hours. We worked really hard to pull out all the stops in this video. We had slo-mo goggle shots; time lapses; pedal flips; outrageous product shots; unloading and loading the bike; walking through the field with your hand in wheat. At the end of the day this trip was all about just getting out and riding with all my friends.

www.letsridebikes.ca

Dec. 5, 2012, 10:17 p.m.
Posts: 18790
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Ho ho ho

Dec. 5, 2012, 10:20 p.m.
Posts: 209
Joined: May 29, 2003

i was kind of under the impression that structures are done, in large part because they require maintenance (and the landowners don't like them).

Replacing optional TTFs on trails falls low on the priority list right now. When we've brought the trails up to a safer, more maintainable and more sustainable state, we'll have the time and resources to be creative with the optional lines.

.

Dec. 5, 2012, 11:34 p.m.
Posts: 1923
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Oh please befucking joking

…No offense,eh.

I hope so.. I noticed that log has been flattened and the tree with a small triangle ladder in the middle has been removed, along with the rope.

Sad to see as that was on of my favourite log rides ever. Guess that comes with teh territory though.

Clunking is for retards.

Dec. 6, 2012, 1:24 a.m.
Posts: 3834
Joined: May 23, 2006

What happened to the interesting thread?

Freedom of contract. We sell them guns that kill them; they sell us drugs that kill us.

Dec. 6, 2012, 5:20 a.m.
Posts: 15758
Joined: May 29, 2004

What happened to the interesting thread?

I'll assume that some folks thought they were above being called out as dicks (who do good trailwork) and the thread was a moot point because no one is actually against their work but some folks worried publicly about what the final product would be if done to the municipalities standard.

Pastor of Muppets

Dec. 6, 2012, 7:46 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 12, 2007

I hope so.. I noticed that log has been flattened and the tree with a small triangle ladder in the middle has been removed, along with the rope.

Sad to see as that was on of my favourite log rides ever. Guess that comes with teh territory though.

Well people can flame my ass to hell but I wasn't joking. And the comments above are some of the reasons why. I last rode it (or most of it…) in 2008 IIRC and got as far as the tree before wimping out and walking to the end. I can't remember a rope then? But now there's no tree to use as a target or bail out option. I did notice the remains of a rope off to the side of the log but it was as much use as tits on a fish. It wouldn't be an issue if it was near the start of the trail but it's balls deep and there's no current way of getting around it. Pangor and Boogieman are only a few feet apart once one has passed that log so would it be too hard to cut a basic trail back to Pangor somewhere before it? I don't know the topography to be honest….

There are some trails on the Shore that are hard to find and / or have a reputation so people keep away. I know 5th Horseman will probably kill me from what I have heard so I've no interest in riding it. Boogieman is easy to find and I don't know anyone outside internet forums who likes that log. It seems like a prime candidate for having an alternative line to me (but keep the log), which is what this thread is about, or hell just stick a sign up at the trail head saying 'Extreme Death Log way down the trail with no optional line'.

Anyway, flame on….moar bobsled, moar berms etc…..

treezz
wow you are a ass

Dec. 6, 2012, 8:22 a.m.
Posts: 15758
Joined: May 29, 2004

Is it not marked as a black diamond trail?

There are moves above the log much more difficult than riding a 3 foot wide log.

Again,no offense meant.

Pastor of Muppets

Dec. 6, 2012, 8:33 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 12, 2007

Is it not marked as a black diamond trail?

There are moves above the log much more difficult than riding a 3 foot wide log.

Again,no offense meant.

Yep, but by the same token isn't Empress double blaaaack? I've cleaned Empress on my XC hardtail a few years ago and that trail has lower consequence moves. Different strokes for different folks I guess, plus I'm old and shi'ite these days.

treezz
wow you are a ass

Dec. 6, 2012, 9:36 a.m.
Posts: 798
Joined: Feb. 16, 2010

the log ride is a difficult one to work around at the moment. i know, nowadays i avoid it in the rain due to the slick slime on it. i think there are options to work around but they will have to be discussed and planned out for the future. for instance, i could envision, dirt-topping the log for all weather traction and riding. the log itself needs support underneath. it's pretty much suspended most of the way, so those supports can potentially be bail-out, safety points etc. anyway, just putting some thoughts out there.

"You know what's wrong with Vancouver? You can't pee off of your own balcony without getting in trouble"
- Phil Gordon

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