Squamish just ain't what it used to be

On the topic of technology on the trails. What do people use the copious amounts of footage from their go pro for? Do they sit up at night reliving the glory of their ride down bobsled earlier in the day? I seriously don't understand the need to chronicle every minute of your life into an electronic database.

Posted by: Kieran

I'm seriously have seen ebikers climbing on tech trails and wide roads they both seem to be motoring along just fine.

I've also witnessed a couple who were easily over 65 blast up the last section of the climb on BLT before you hit the road at the switchback (pretty steep if you know it). They both laughed out loud (not out of breath at all) and then turned around and headed back the way they came.

Don't tell me they are hard work :)

And I'm not even against ebikers but you can wait on a tech climb for a good place to pass while I cough up a lung.

I 100% agree. That's why I always wait. I'm not in any hurry and its not like there is a medal waiting at the top! 

I should have been more clear about technical climbing. I'm far less gassed, but I just meant that I clean more first pass on my regular bike than my eBike.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: Kieran

They have a motor, let them pick the passing point. I ain't moving over for anyone who isn't putting in serious effort.

Just because a rider is on an emtb doesn’t mean they aren’t putting in serious effort. I wish we could put that myth to bed.

The point is that it can be much easier for an ebiker because they have a motor helping them. So sure, an ebiker can put in serious effort uphill if the trail allows it, but comparatively they need to put in less effort to pass someone grinding up a steep section of trail. Based on that, imo anyway, the ebiker can wait until there's a good place to make a safe pass. At the end of the day the local trails aren't a race track, so there should be no expectation for someone to pull over for you because you're going faster - it's done as a courtesy to other riders. I'm happy to pull over and let someone pass when I feel there's an appropriate place, and likewise I'll wait to pass someone at an appropriate place and let them know before hand. Whether it's on an ebike or not, passing should follow the same principles. Unfortunately it seems that some ebikers feel entitled to just blast on by without any warning or consideration for other riders and that is BS.

Exactly. Basic consideration and manners. Everyone needs to remember that we are all there to enjoy the ride.

The only e-bikes I saw were the Fire & Rescue after their second call on Sunday afternoon.

However the number of bikes coming down Tracks of Hell exceeded everything I have seen in past years of riding Squamish. Talked to another rider and he said the same thing. Not sure what is happening there.

^Loads of people are riding Miki's Magic to Man Boobs. 

In order to get back to Perth area that's the obvious option for people not wanting to head up to Entrails etc. I've done the same, and turn left onto Don't Tell Donny just before the bridge rather than causing more Bike Squamish ranting regarding going along the bridge the 'wrong' way ha ha.

Was riding the Alice lake trails last weekend. Took the 8 year old to Miki’s and manboobs (he loved the name). I pulled him part of the way to get him to the top (dad-powered bike?) 

I was blown away at how many people of all ages were on ebikes. Probably about 40%. Groups doing laps of Miki’s barely breaking a sweat. 

Not necessarily opposed to ebikes but I definitely felt smug on a regular bike pulling a kid up the same trail guys nearly half my age were riding ebikes.

The thread was originally about Squamish, but then devolved into another ebike debate. What is the connection? Is there one?

Certainly....whenever any area goes through a rapid peak in popularity, it will attract the crowds...the masses...the herd....that will include those that are out for maximum thrills, and have zero regard for others...whatever they may ride.

When you add a motor to a bike, it enables a few behaviors that one cannot reasonably manage on a mountain bike. That includes blasting uphill into traffic, and passing at high speed without warning. Both of these things have happened numerous times in the past month, both involving ebikes on a regular basis. 

Did the technology make them do it? - No

Are ebikes bad? - No

Is it just a matter of a few bad apples like we have in every group? Yes...but kind of....

Again, adding a motor lets people do douche-bag things they wouldn't get away with on a mountain bike..,...such as boosting up the left side of the Mashiter and crashing into people coming down, or pinning it past people labouring on a climb and nearly running them off the trail. The motor simply enables more selfish behavior among people that already care little for others. Go figure.

Meanwhile, the ebike-pushers and marketers remain totally silent with respect to any discussion of courtesy. There has not been a peep from our resident walking-commercial about the extra responsibility that comes with adding a motor to the mix. No suggestion of riding in the direction of existing traffic. No discussion of giving people extra warning in advance as you scream up behind them.

Instead, I see ebike buddy posting videos of himself climbing up the downhill trails, whining about how he feels victimized when people call them mopeds, and then hypocritically ridiculing people on mountain bikes. 

If we can point a finger of blame for the broader pattern of (albeit rare) douche-bag behavior, it can point at those people that only seek to sell....selling out our sport, without a spare second to talk about courtesy. Solely focused on instant gratification, while offering every excuse in the book about helping disabled riders, getting a superior workout (while also making it effortless)....and so forth. 

There simply has been zero leadership from those that brought ebikes to the riding community, so it is little surprise that the minority of jerk-offs that do buy them, proceed to use them in such a manner. They are the same crowd that strip on front lawns, toss their empties, and blast loamers in the rain. Most people will use these rides responsibly. However, a motorized mtb provides a special attraction to those that really only care about themselves...minimal effort, maximum yahoo. 

If I ever get an ebike, and I won't rule it out, I sure as hell won't ride up Rupert and LOA, and will sure as sh*t slow down and give an extra friendly hello in advance as I seek to pass, and definitely won't use it to slap on fenders and pants so I can rip trails in the rain....but I guess that it's too much to ask that this is suggested to others. Wouldn't want to suggest that this extra fast toy comes with a bit of extra responsibility. Heaven forbid we infringe on that personal individual freedom.

If I ever get an ebike, and I won't rule it out, I sure as hell won't ride up Rupert and LOA, and will sure as sh*t slow down and give an extra friendly hello in advance as I seek to pass, and definitely won't use it to slap on fenders and pants so I can rip trails in the rain....but I guess that it's too much to ask that this is suggested to others. Wouldn't want to suggest that this extra fast toy comes with a bit of extra responsibility. Heaven forbid we infringe on that personal individual freedom.

We'll put... I went from hating to being like whatever, if you wanna ride one that's your choice. My concern is that where is the line in the sand? Give it a few years and there will be a ebike that you won't have to pedal at all like the street versions that have a bogus crank set on them. Who is going to govern this? Are you gunna call some guy out on the trails riding one saying he can't be there? What a shitty way to ruin a day. This is the biggest problem IMO and the bike industry could care less.

Posted by: cerealkilla_
Again, adding a motor lets people do douche-bag things they wouldn't get away with on a mountain bike..,...such as boosting up the left side of the Mashiter and crashing into people coming down, or pinning it past people labouring on a climb and nearly running them off the trail. The motor simply enables more selfish behavior among people that already care little for others. Go figure.

Meanwhile, the ebike-pushers and marketers remain totally silent with respect to any discussion of courtesy. There has not been a peep from our resident walking-commercial about the extra responsibility that comes with adding a motor to the mix. No suggestion of riding in the direction of existing traffic. No discussion of giving people extra warning in advance as you scream up behind them.

Instead, I see ebike buddy posting videos of himself climbing up the downhill trails, whining about how he feels victimized when people call them mopeds, and then hypocritically ridiculing people on mountain bikes. 

If we can point a finger of blame for the broader pattern of (albeit rare) douche-bag behavior, it can point at those people that only seek to sell....selling out our sport, without a spare second to talk about courtesy. Solely focused on instant gratification, while offering every excuse in the book about helping disabled riders, getting a superior workout (while also making it effortless)....and so forth. 

There simply has been zero leadership from those that brought ebikes to the riding community, so it is little surprise that the minority of jerk-offs that do buy them, proceed to use them in such a manner. They are the same crowd that strip on front lawns, toss their empties, and blast loamers in the rain. Most people will use these rides responsibly. However, a motorized mtb provides a special attraction to those that really only care about themselves...minimal effort, maximum yahoo. 

If I ever get an ebike, and I won't rule it out, I sure as hell won't ride up Rupert and LOA, and will sure as sh*t slow down and give an extra friendly hello in advance as I seek to pass, and definitely won't use it to slap on fenders and pants so I can rip trails in the rain....but I guess that it's too much to ask that this is suggested to others. Wouldn't want to suggest that this extra fast toy comes with a bit of extra responsibility. Heaven forbid we infringe on that personal individual freedom.

thanks for taking the time to write this out.  i agree 100% but would never be able to pen such an eloquent statement.

100% agreed with what cerealkilla_ wrote... 

But I'll add: Aside from ebikes attracting the "jerks" perhaps more than a regular bike would, they are also attracting complete beginners. And although they may not intend to act in a "jerk manner" the natural progressive nature of traditional mountain biking (beginning on lower/shorter trails, not having the fitness to blow past others) tended to keep those people somewhat in check until they have gained more knowledge of the nuances and etiquette of the sport. The popularity of Ebikes has "short-circuited" that natural process in many cases.

Posted by: mammal

100% agreed with what cerealkilla_ wrote... 

But I'll add: Aside from ebikes attracting the "jerks" perhaps more than a regular bike would, they are also attracting complete beginners. And although they may not intend to act in a "jerk manner" the natural progressive nature of traditional mountain biking (beginning on lower/shorter trails, not having the fitness to blow past others) tended to keep those people somewhat in check until they have gained more knowledge of the nuances and etiquette of the sport. The popularity of Ebikes has "short-circuited" that natural process in many cases.

Ha! This reminds me of something I saw last week....some kid on an ebike, stranded at the end of a (rather easy) trail. He was receiving assistance from 3 other people, and was good natured about his predicament, if not a bit sheepish.

His problem you may ask?

His pants were tangled in his drive mechanism, rendering him immobile. He could neither dismount nor extract his leg from his pants without 3 other people assisting him. I asked them if they needed help, and resisted the urge to take a picture. 

Is it really such a great idea that any rider can get themselves into pretty much any situation? 

Super tech climb to reach that gnarly trail? No problem!  Total beginner with minimal fitness and zero handling skills? No need to stick to the easy accessible trails until you build your skill - just motor right up to the top and let er rip!

Pants stuck in drivetrain. That is all.

So elitist. Why do you want to deny mountain biking to the garmently challenged?

E-bikers are the new WBP Fuck Bois. Pants, goggles, hip bag.

Speaking of which; the e-couple that was out doing laps yesterday didn’t appear to be breaking much of a sweat on the FSR climbs. In fact I never saw them after the passed me whilst having a conversation the whole way up. 

Might get an ebike now since I’m fat and out of shape 😂 Plus the MX crowd is shit kicking any trail they can access.

Icing on the cake....

Went for another ride in Squamish yesterday. Was riding up a steep tech climb. Went past someone walking up it and they commented "Wow! and you're not on an ebike either"

Sooooo, she is so used to seeing Ebikes power up this stuff that she is surprised to see a non-ebike doing it. Not saying Squamish is bad or anything - just different. It used to be know for the "Test of Metal" now it would be the test of battery and motor. If you were never in Squamish when the test of metal was a thing, you might not understand what is different today.