New posts

Squamish just ain't what it used to be

June 30, 2020, 8:22 a.m.
Posts: 328
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: andy-eunson

I was chatting with a local builder the other day. He had a fat tired ebike that he motorized himself. Throttled and massively powerful. Gives him quicker access for building. But boy did he ever go off on those that ride them with no reason other than to ride more. We had been talking about his trail and the fact that riders had been cutting in at the halfway point to avoid the fantastic aesthetic single climb because it was too hard.

Do people still think that growth of the sport by encouraging folks to get ebikes is good? Or growth at all?

I’m going to assume the riders cutting in half way are on regular bikes? Certainly for an emtb this fantastic climb wouldn’t be too hard. It also sounds like your builder friend is unfamiliar with the word hypocrisy.

I think in some cases a “braid” is just the natural evolution of a trail. Sometimes it could be a ride around and other times it is just a better line that was simply missed when the trail was cut.

The ebike is for getting to the build area with tools and for saving energy for the build. No hypocrisy at all.

June 30, 2020, 8:38 a.m.
Posts: 2
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Sometimes though in some places the "better line" or strava line is also not sustainable from a water management or riding perspective.

June 30, 2020, 9:58 a.m.
Posts: 712
Joined: March 15, 2013

I think some braids also evolve from people just straight up accidentally missing the main line / turn and then it just beds in.

June 30, 2020, 11:42 a.m.
Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 16, 2013

Squamish is a great place to ride, and I think that every riding area in the Sea2Sky is seeing an uptick of use from all types of riders during the Covid times. None of the issues there are absent on the Shore, but I think issues in Squamish may get noticed a bit more because it's so friendly to all rider types/skill levels, and is right in the middle of the Sea2Sky sandwich.

June 30, 2020, 12:05 p.m.
Posts: 933
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: andy-eunson

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: andy-eunson

I was chatting with a local builder the other day. He had a fat tired ebike that he motorized himself. Throttled and massively powerful. Gives him quicker access for building. But boy did he ever go off on those that ride them with no reason other than to ride more. We had been talking about his trail and the fact that riders had been cutting in at the halfway point to avoid the fantastic aesthetic single climb because it was too hard.

Do people still think that growth of the sport by encouraging folks to get ebikes is good? Or growth at all?

I’m going to assume the riders cutting in half way are on regular bikes? Certainly for an emtb this fantastic climb wouldn’t be too hard. It also sounds like your builder friend is unfamiliar with the word hypocrisy.

I think in some cases a “braid” is just the natural evolution of a trail. Sometimes it could be a ride around and other times it is just a better line that was simply missed when the trail was cut.

The ebike is for getting to the build area with tools and for saving energy for the build. No hypocrisy at all.

But wouldn’t you think that using a throttled de restricted, not a class one, Ebike kind of sets a poor example? Builder or not.

June 30, 2020, 1:01 p.m.
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 4, 2006

Posted by: thaaad

I think some braids also evolve from people just straight up accidentally missing the main line / turn and then it just beds in.

Another point:

Unless you rode the trail just after it was opened (and remembered every feature), once a braid has formed, it's often difficult for subsequent "first time on the trail" riders to determine which was the original line...so they may be oblivious to the original line, particularly if the braid flows better than the original...

June 30, 2020, 9:46 p.m.
Posts: 328
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: andy-eunson

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: andy-eunson

I was chatting with a local builder the other day. He had a fat tired ebike that he motorized himself. Throttled and massively powerful. Gives him quicker access for building. But boy did he ever go off on those that ride them with no reason other than to ride more. We had been talking about his trail and the fact that riders had been cutting in at the halfway point to avoid the fantastic aesthetic single climb because it was too hard.

Do people still think that growth of the sport by encouraging folks to get ebikes is good? Or growth at all?

I’m going to assume the riders cutting in half way are on regular bikes? Certainly for an emtb this fantastic climb wouldn’t be too hard. It also sounds like your builder friend is unfamiliar with the word hypocrisy.

I think in some cases a “braid” is just the natural evolution of a trail. Sometimes it could be a ride around and other times it is just a better line that was simply missed when the trail was cut.

The ebike is for getting to the build area with tools and for saving energy for the build. No hypocrisy at all.

But wouldn’t you think that using a throttled de restricted, not a class one, Ebike kind of sets a poor example? Builder or not.

With a chainsaw on his back? No.

July 1, 2020, 12:07 a.m.
Posts: 350
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

I rode Squamish over the weekend....I didn't see the mopeds and shuttlers in the numbers you described. And I covered a lot of ground.

July 1, 2020, 2:07 p.m.
Posts: 1034
Joined: Feb. 5, 2011

Posted by: mudrunner

I rode Squamish over the weekend....I didn't see the mopeds and shuttlers in the numbers you described. And I covered a lot of ground.

I feel like this supposed issue is very "first world problems" - So you see 50 riders throughout the course of your 2 hour ride, or you have to pull over 5x for 10 seconds each time to let an e-biker pass you on a climb. If that sort of thing is enough to make someone feel like they had a bad ride then they need to put things into perspective and realized how privileged they are in the first place that something like this bothers them...

July 1, 2020, 3:01 p.m.
Posts: 680
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Bull_Dozer

or you have to pull over 5x for 10 seconds each time to let an e-biker pass you on a climb

Or the flip side of that is having your climbing groove busted by people relying on a motor to get to the top?


 Last edited by: syncro on July 1, 2020, 4:27 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
July 1, 2020, 4:26 p.m.
Posts: 246
Joined: March 6, 2017

To be on the Strava leaderboards you have to pay for a subscription now, I know a majority of my friends chose not to get the sub and my guess is that trend is consistent for mtbers in the s2s. So the fact that Strava is the cause of hoards of people braiding trails doesnt add up anymore, maybe 6 months ago but not now.

Also consider that the sheer pace of mtbing around here has gotten faster due to the equipment and general progression. This can cause braids as people accidentally blow off the trail, especially on older trails built with slower speeds in mind.

Theres lots of new riders these days and as mentioned above, it takes one person to accidentally cut a line and everyone will follow. I doubt it's a result of Strava and more a case of many factors.


 Last edited by: T-mack on July 1, 2020, 5:28 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
July 1, 2020, 5:39 p.m.
Posts: 26
Joined: Aug. 6, 2004

T-Mack

I think you just explained the problem we are having on Pipeline

"sheer pace of mtbing around here has gotten faster due to the equipment and general progression. This can cause braids as people accidentally blow off the trail, especially on older trails built with slower speeds in mind"

We have lots of problems with this and users of this trail to make things flow faster.

July 1, 2020, 7:20 p.m.
Posts: 1697
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Bull_Dozer

or you have to pull over 5x for 10 seconds each time to let an e-biker pass you on a climb

Or the flip side of that is having your climbing groove busted by people relying on a motor to get to the top?

This.... Try not to let it bother me but ya.. kinda a piss off. Most times they never say a word, the sound of their shitty motorcycle is supposed to make me pull over and submit.

July 1, 2020, 8:26 p.m.
Posts: 1034
Joined: Feb. 5, 2011

Posted by: syncro

having your climbing groove busted

First world problems. I'm not an e-biker, and don't plan on being one anytime soon, I just think that we as mountain bikers (and outdoor enthusiasts in general) are quite spoiled (especially in this part of the world) and to get riled up about such minor occurrences is unjustified. "I went on a 2 hour mountain bike ride on some of the best trails in the world, but I had to pull over a few times to let some e-bikers pass me a few times during my ride...". 

Rider traffic has never once been an issue for me outside of riding the most popular trails in the WBP on the busiest days.

July 1, 2020, 8:56 p.m.
Posts: 648
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: Bull_Dozer

Posted by: syncro

having your climbing groove busted

First world problems. I'm not an e-biker, and don't plan on being one anytime soon, I just think that we as mountain bikers (and outdoor enthusiasts in general) are quite spoiled (especially in this part of the world) and to get riled up about such minor occurrences is unjustified. "I went on a 2 hour mountain bike ride on some of the best trails in the world, but I had to pull over a few times to let some e-bikers pass me a few times during my ride...". 

Rider traffic has never once been an issue for me outside of riding the most popular trails in the WBP on the busiest days.

Out of curiosity, how long have you been riding Squamish? If you've only been riding there in the past 5 or so years, you don't actually know what you are missing. I don't expect any sympathy. There is a reason I work 1/2 time on the island - I don't want to share everything with 2 million other people all the time - call me "spoiled."

I have the same feeling about skiing Whistler. If you had the experience 20 years ago, the experience these days is not the same. I'm not saying that Squamish and Whistler are not worth it, just not what they used to be.

Forum jump: