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Spinal cord Armageddon!

Nov. 22, 2024, 12:06 a.m.
Posts: 13317
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Mic

On a serious note, since Covid I have observed in Europe that a lot, if not the majority of riders, ride stuff that is way beyond their abilities and limits, be it on highspeed jump trails in the Euro Alps or in Finale Ligure where there are no flow trails.  

We have visited a park in Austria for 10 years, and the increase in heli support/mtn rescue has definitely increased. And paramedics who are stationed at the bike park reflect that sentiment. Instead of slowly increasing their skill levels, most riders simply ride stuff that they have no business in. With bikes getting more capable than every, a lot of riders think that they have the skill set.

Cue the argument that this is another valid reason for starting off riding on a hard tail. 

Hi Dave! Hi!

A hardtail or dj bike is a nice way to work on basic jumping skills in the winter, be it in snow free skateparks or indoor parks... whips, anybody?

Nov. 22, 2024, 12:14 a.m.
Posts: 13317
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Posted by: Kever

Saw this on CBC news the other day. I think it's a good to raise awareness of. Mountain biking is an inherently risky sport, people need to be responsible for their decisions out there. 

Why did neck braces go out of style in the downhill realm? They make a lot of sense to me. My buddies and I wear them. 

I'm glad chest and spine protection is mandatory in racing. Also makes sense. 

I'm guessing most of these injuries aren't happening on the DH track though. Would be good to see some stats on what level of trails these injuries are happening on, and the experience level of the injured riders.

I agree, this year I have been to Finale quite a few times, and it is shocking to see that quite a large percentage of riders do not wear full face helmets or proper kneepads, given the nature of the trails there. Risk assessment and judging one's riding abilities is a little off with quite a few. 

And I have to agree to the others as well, after a certain level or skill set, speed and amplitude equal progression, what was that saying twenty years ago when Bender first popped up? Big balls, big falls? And I remember from Digger's movies that quote....Biking skills or hospital bills.

Nov. 22, 2024, 6:25 a.m.
Posts: 3676
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: andy-eunson

Typo. I had meant to say  refinement was progression. Sorry. 

But you’re right that it’s not fair to people to wait for care when they’ve led healthy lives and some knucklehead made poor choices and gets in ahead. But where would one draw a line? Similarly people often call for SAR to send a bill to rescued people. But that could lead to people not calling for help and dying as a result. With medical care we all pay in to it so we are all entitled to care. The issue is really what are we getting for our dollars. It should be that the system is run better so we can all get better care. Where would you draw the line? Old people? You’re nearly dead pull the plug. Any accident victim who was negligent? Your fault you’re on your own.

N/P.

The question of where to draw the line or how to implement a system that rewards people that make healthy lifestyle choices is a tough one. In a perfect world I's prefer to see little to no restrictions and everyone gets the healthcare they need - but that isn't practical. I've heard the idea that we get a certain number of health credits or dollars per year, and if we need healthcare above that level due to not taking care of ourselves or making poor choices then we have to pay. The problem with that is how do you account for environmental and social factors that can affect people's health through no real fault of their own? This is where those living in poverty are almost always more negatively affected. The other issue is how do we monitor who's living a healthy lifestyle? We could make in mandatory to do bi-annual checkups/bloodwork to see of we're in a healthy zone, but that will cost money as well. 

However we look at it, something needs to change. Healthcare is getting more expensive and the population on average is getting less healthy, so we can't continue on the way we are going.

Nov. 23, 2024, 2:26 p.m.
Posts: 3847
Joined: May 23, 2006

When some yank or foreigner comes up here and bounces down the mtn on their head rendering them quad, who picks up the tab for emergency care until they get shipped home? The province? obummercare? What if they have no insurance?

Instead of the billionaire owners of Vailsomethingorother corp. getting a free pass by making their customers wave their legal rights when they buys a pass how about the Province mandates a mtn biking competency accreditation system for bike parks the bike park owners have police at the lift or better yet at the entrance to each sanctioned, marked trail.

Nov. 24, 2024, 9:17 a.m.
Posts: 19200
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Posted by: tashi

What the fuck has happened to mountain bikers?

They went online.

Nov. 24, 2024, 9:47 a.m.
Posts: 741
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: Kever

Saw this on CBC news the other day. I think it's a good to raise awareness of. Mountain biking is an inherently risky sport, people need to be responsible for their decisions out there. 

Why did neck braces go out of style in the downhill realm? They make a lot of sense to me. My buddies and I wear them. 

I'm glad chest and spine protection is mandatory in racing. Also makes sense. 

I'm guessing most of these injuries aren't happening on the DH track though. Would be good to see some stats on what level of trails these injuries are happening on, and the experience level of the injured riders.

I believe that chest and back protection is only mandatory in some venues. It’s not a UCI rule so it’s up to the governing body of the country that the race is being run in. And the individual of course. This came up a while back and that was the answer I got. Maybe that has changed? In alpine skiing because it’s run as national teams safety is partly up the national team rules. In ski cross our national team mandates the use of air bags. I think FIS has mandated air bags for speed events recently. The UCI if they don’t already should certainly mandate back and other protection for sanctioned events.

Nov. 24, 2024, 10:03 a.m.
Posts: 741
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: tungsten

When some yank or foreigner comes up here and bounces down the mtn on their head rendering them quad, who picks up the tab for emergency care until they get shipped home? The province? obummercare? What if they have no insurance?

Instead of the billionaire owners of Vailsomethingorother corp. getting a free pass by making their customers wave their legal rights when they buys a pass how about the Province mandates a mtn biking competency accreditation system for bike parks the bike park owners have police at the lift or better yet at the entrance to each sanctioned, marked trail.

If you need emergency care here you get that. You may be billed for it later. Non emergency you pay up front. We don’t let people suffer or die because they don’t have insurance. Waivers are a useful tool for entities to defend themselves from claims where the accident was caused by the inherent nature of the sport. When the Quicksilver accident happened the waiver was not a defence.  That type of accident is not reasonably foreseeable to the skiers. 

The last time I rode A-line there was a mandatory filter feature at the trail entrance. Those are good things to assist people in decision making. Difficulty ratings are another. Ride arounds are also a good thing. The rider decides. That provides a complete defence.

Nov. 24, 2024, 1:51 p.m.
Posts: 3847
Joined: May 23, 2006

Posted by: tashi

...and manning bike parks with police?

lol...no of course not. This is where, like a politician, I say I, "misspoke".

I meant they, the bike park staff, "police" their facility.

Did you just seriously advocate for skills tests 

Fuck yeah. Just think of all the dirt bag mtn bikers out there who could become contributing members of society by getting licensed as certified gubmint instructors. Students take a test, get a certificate for access to bike parks or any other place profit is being accrued.  

What the fuck has happened to mountain bikers?

We're getting old and cranky watching the assault on a healthcare system we, as seniors, are increasingly in need of, by idealogues like Ford and Higgs and thus resent outfits like Vail, a US entity, making a profit that leaves the country while leaving behind cost stressors on that very healthcare system. 

Don't wait until you get old.

Nov. 24, 2024, 1:54 p.m.
Posts: 3847
Joined: May 23, 2006

Posted by: andy-eunson

That provides a complete defence.

Incomplete. Peeps still ending up paralyzed.

Nov. 24, 2024, 4:06 p.m.
Posts: 15182
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

This is a strange way to troll

Nov. 24, 2024, 4:28 p.m.
Posts: 1306
Joined: March 16, 2017

Ok,...so to be clear....

-getting hurt even seriously riding thrill craft through the trees is bad.

- riding thrill craft on roads and with vehicles getting seriously hurt aka maimed and killed by drivers is good.

Got it.

Brilliant.


 Last edited by: Endurimil on Nov. 24, 2024, 4:29 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Nov. 24, 2024, 5:44 p.m.
Posts: 40
Joined: March 30, 2015

This is when fun becomes a transaction. Max thrills, just pay someone and now I don't have to care about risks, since the Pros looked like pros. Bike park, lumberjack show, 5D movie, no difference.

Instead having a given activity as a goal and learning and progressing towards it.

Nov. 25, 2024, 6:09 a.m.
Posts: 3847
Joined: May 23, 2006

Posted by: Endurimil

Ok,...so to be clear....

-getting hurt even seriously riding thrill craft through the trees is bad.

- riding thrill craft on roads and with vehicles getting seriously hurt aka maimed and killed by drivers is good.

Got it.

Brilliant.

Don't know why you advocate drunk driving. Spinal cord injury costs the same either way.

Nov. 25, 2024, 6:30 a.m.
Posts: 3676
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: tungsten

We're getting old and cranky watching the assault on a healthcare system we, as seniors, are increasingly in need of, by idealogues like Ford and Higgs and thus resent outfits like Vail, a US entity, making a profit that leaves the country while leaving behind cost stressors on that very healthcare system. 

You make a valid point here when considering a very big picture. However, I think there are other areas of health care where efficiencies and cost savings can be found before we go down this road. What you suggest seems like one of those things that would not offer a positive return over the cost to administer it.

Nov. 25, 2024, 6:31 a.m.
Posts: 3676
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Endurimil

Ok,...so to be clear....

-getting hurt even seriously riding thrill craft through the trees is bad.

- riding thrill craft on roads and with vehicles getting seriously hurt aka maimed and killed by drivers is good.

Got it.

Brilliant.

No. That's not what's being suggested at all.

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