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Skull Trail Saboteur Arrested and Charged

Feb. 3, 2015, 8:14 p.m.
Posts: 403
Joined: March 27, 2011

http://www.theprovince.com/touch/news/vancouver/woods+North+RCMP+patrolling+trails+after+nasty+biker+hiker/10784965/story.html?rel=838332

Tin foil says this is a plot by local RCMP to get more riding time in.

First I'd like to say thanks to Cam for stepping up and adjusting the article. Not only as he found out new information but also after speaking with the hiker. We have seen both sides. This news article is favoring the other side at this point. New agencies tend to post stories that will get more hits so maybe their reader base would favor that view point. From what I can see, it's between these two women to sort out their differences. It sound like the hiker is up for a resolution so I hope the two are able to discuss and come to terms.

So enough of the finger pointing supposed simmering tempers. Lets all enjoy the forest. There's always going to be a few people out there that mess stuff up and bad news sells but we can go past that.

Feb. 3, 2015, 10:32 p.m.
Posts: 33718
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

I like how the news story states the "elderly" hiker has arthritis, which has zero relevance to what happened. Tabloid journalism.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

Feb. 3, 2015, 11:23 p.m.
Posts: 65
Joined: Nov. 6, 2009

"Ramsey said she has been hiking the Fromme trails for more than 15 years and feels the tension is at a boiling point, with the routes being heavily used by both bikers and hikers.

She doesn’t want to see the two incidents go to court and rather than criminal charges thinks that there is a possibility that the restorative-justice process is better suited to end the dispute."

I also like the way it is framed as if the biker was the one being investigated for assault and not Ramsey.

Feb. 4, 2015, 6:49 a.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

"Ramsey said she has been hiking the Fromme trails for more than 15 years and feels the tension is at a boiling point, with the routes being heavily used by both bikers and hikers.

She doesn’t want to see the two incidents go to court and rather than criminal charges thinks that there is a possibility that the restorative-justice process is better suited to end the dispute."

I also like the way it is framed as if the biker was the one being investigated for assault and not Ramsey.

this is exactly why I commented on Cam's article about how the implication that there is mutual culpability was a mistake. Now the general non trail using public is using that to place more blame on the younger rider, and the older lady is using her age and 'frailty' to frame herself as the victim when she is the one solely responsible for physically escalating the situation in both instances.

Feb. 4, 2015, 6:54 a.m.
Posts: 3518
Joined: May 27, 2008

this is exactly why I commented on Cam's article about how the implication that there is mutual culpability was a mistake. Now the general non trail using public is using that to place more blame on the younger rider, and the older lady is using her age and 'frailty' to frame herself as the victim when she is the one solely responsible for physically escalating the situation in both instances.

Yeah this is my issue with the situation. You could say that the elderly hiker was provoked, but twice she retaliated physically. Any one of us were to do that we'd be in jail for assault.

Being cheap is OK. Being a clueless sanctimonious condescending douchebag is just Vlad's MO.

Feb. 4, 2015, 7:07 a.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Yeah this is my issue with the situation. You could say that the elderly hiker was provoked, but twice she retaliated physically. Any one of us were to do that we'd be in jail for assault.

mis-understanding a statement isn't really a provocation, per se…I mean, it did provoke, but only because the hiker wanted to take extreme offence to what was said.

Feb. 4, 2015, 8:04 a.m.
Posts: 3518
Joined: May 27, 2008

mis-understanding a statement isn't really a provocation, per se…I mean, it did provoke, but only because the hiker wanted to take extreme offence to what was said.

Yeah provoke might have been the wrong word.

Being cheap is OK. Being a clueless sanctimonious condescending douchebag is just Vlad's MO.

Feb. 4, 2015, 8:27 a.m.
Posts: 17
Joined: Aug. 15, 2011

The media is making is into a bigger story than it really is. If both party's had of treated each other with respect this would have never escalated to this level. Let's let the police get back to doing real police work not baby sitting on the trails.

Feb. 4, 2015, 8:51 a.m.
Posts: 10
Joined: Jan. 12, 2006

Flip, Feral, do you guys really see the physical nature of the pole poke to be where the line was crossed? I appreciate that, in the eyes of the law, that may be the case, but really? With the caveat that we still don't (and likely wont ever) know the truth about what happened, I'd be far more hurt/upset/offended by strong verbal abuse than being poked in the bum with a hiking pole.

Feb. 4, 2015, 9:09 a.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

Flip, Feral, do you guys really see the physical nature of the pole poke to be where the line was crossed? I appreciate that, in the eyes of the law, that may be the case, but really? With the caveat that we still don't (and likely wont ever) know the truth about what happened, I'd be far more hurt/upset/offended by strong verbal abuse than being poked in the bum with a hiking pole.

Showed my wife the story on this and she noted how everyone is wanting to forgive and so on. She asked me a question …..Would we be treating this the same way if it was a 60 year old male hiker who poked the female rider in the bum with his pole? Threw the female rider to the ground?

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Feb. 4, 2015, 9:18 a.m.
Posts: 623
Joined: Sept. 7, 2011

Flip, Feral, do you guys really see the physical nature of the pole poke to be where the line was crossed? I appreciate that, in the eyes of the law, that may be the case, but really? With the caveat that we still don't (and likely wont ever) know the truth about what happened, I'd be far more hurt/upset/offended by strong verbal abuse than being poked in the bum with a hiking pole.

The eyes of the law are what counts. There is excuse for what the old lady did. She initiated the physical conflict on both occasions and that is on record.

Feb. 4, 2015, 9:29 a.m.
Posts: 3518
Joined: May 27, 2008

Flip, Feral, do you guys really see the physical nature of the pole poke to be where the line was crossed? I appreciate that, in the eyes of the law, that may be the case, but really? With the caveat that we still don't (and likely wont ever) know the truth about what happened, I'd be far more hurt/upset/offended by strong verbal abuse than being poked in the bum with a hiking pole.

But would you lash out physically if you were subjected to strong verbal abuse? I think the poke in the ass was only the precursor. If it had stopped at that, there probably wouldn't have been any other word about this incident. The problem happened with the attempt to take the picture. The hiker admits to going after the biker over the picture, and I still content that someone waving their hands in another person's face in a panicked situation could easily cause a defensive bite. I doubt the biker leaned forward to bite the hiker, it's more likely that the hiker's hand was on the biker's face and the biker reacted. IMO both parties were in the wrong, but the hiker is hiding behind her frailty and age when it was her that admittedly escalated both events from a verbal altercation to a physical one.

Being cheap is OK. Being a clueless sanctimonious condescending douchebag is just Vlad's MO.

Feb. 4, 2015, 9:49 a.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

But would you lash out physically if you were subjected to strong verbal abuse? I think the poke in the ass was only the precursor. If it had stopped at that, there probably wouldn't have been any other word about this incident. The problem happened with the attempt to take the picture. The hiker admits to going after the biker over the picture, and I still content that someone waving their hands in another person's face in a panicked situation could easily cause a defensive bite. I doubt the biker leaned forward to bite the hiker, it's more likely that the hiker's hand was on the biker's face and the biker reacted. IMO both parties were in the wrong, but the hiker is hiding behind her frailty and age when it was her that admittedly escalated both events from a verbal altercation to a physical one.

basically, this.

Feb. 4, 2015, 10:44 a.m.
Posts: 10077
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

The first Court date is next month, Feb 4, 2015, 9 AM in North Vancouver.

Anyone attend?

Any reports out yet?

Feb. 4, 2015, 11:07 a.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

The eyes of the law are what counts. There is excuse for what the old lady did. She initiated the physical conflict on both occasions and that is on record.

I seriously doubt this would be less of a discussion if it had been a 65 year old grey haired male hiker who poked the woman in the bum instead.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

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