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Skull Trail Saboteur Arrested and Charged

Jan. 27, 2015, 8:34 p.m.
Posts: 751
Joined: Aug. 14, 2003

So now we see the legal strategy:

First: Label the bikers as aggressive. Even without any concrete evidence of aggression, the article is already referring to bikers as the "bad guys". This is key. "Guys" is key. The accused will never identify bikers as potentially including children, women, or seniors, as these comprise the class of people that society sees as "worthy victims". Instead, they seek to twist and manipulate images once again, that project their own personal fear onto the target of their scorn: the demons of the woods: aggressive bikers. In fact, these bikers need to be shown as reckless persons that invite harm on themselves. Her defence may likely emphasize this, and claim the barriers only pose hazards because of the behaviour of the targets. This strategy is meant to debase bikers, and show that they neither deserve the protection of the law, nor the same standard of regard as we ascribe to regular citizens…you know like sweet people that cry about stuff.

Second: BE THE VICTIM. She is crying, distraught, and her health is suffering. The poor woman. All of this because of a misunderstanding, and those devil-bikers. She was only trying to PROTECT herself and her precious dogs. If she doesn't take these measures, harm will surely come. She is compelled to use this trail and only this trail, and she must render it safe for WORTHY VICTIMS: in this case emotionally fragile seniors and their pets (hmmmm off leash perhaps?).

Third: Be the reasonable person. Note here that there is no argument against the actus reus (the physical act of the crime). She knows she cannot argue this was not her that laid the logs. She instead will argue her criminal intent (mens rea) was lacking. In fact, she will claim that a reasonable person would not have viewed her actions as likely to cause harm to another person, and that her actions actually fall short of the standard applied here of a reasonable person. She will emphasize her own calm and peaceful nature, and use the unreasonable and aggressive actions of a "few idiots" as the counterpoint to the new persona she creates. Her entire legal strategy hinges upon her being viewed as a reasonable person, and the argument that her actions should not have been expected to result in harm.

Of course, one may ask what reasonable person gets up morning after morning to lay traps in the same place, especially given her apparent extensive experience with bikers. As the prosecutor I might ask, might a reasonable person who apparently lives in fear of these downhill speed demons not reasonably foresee that her actions could result in harm to them? The prosecutor might note that self-defense should only apply when there is an immediate threat to self. In this case, we have premeditated and repeated action perpetrated to exert control over a trail that she full well knows is frequented by bikers. A truly scared person would simply avoid the trail, as the barriers are constantly removed, so they provide little protection.

No your honour, I submit the accused is indeed reasonable (and of a sound mind), but that her actions were intended specifically to act as a deterrent of peril and danger to deter riders from their regular use of the trail under the threat of harm. In this sense, any reasonable person in her position would have taken other measures to protect herself from (real or imagined) harm, and that not only would a reasonable person foresee the risk of harm, but it is that exact threat of harm that she attempted to wield as a weapon to lay claim to the public lands.

Jan. 27, 2015, 9:01 p.m.
Posts: 6301
Joined: April 10, 2005

The DNV lists Lower Skull as mountain bike primary [HTML_REMOVED] Quarry Court as hiking only.

Thread killer

Jan. 27, 2015, 10:01 p.m.
Posts: 18790
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

She's already hung by social media. Give her a break. Trails are for everyone to enjoy at their own pace.

Jan. 27, 2015, 10:56 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 12, 2007

Can someone confirm or refute the following statement:

Tineke Kraal sabotaged dedicated bike trails. They were neither hiking or mixed-use trails.

True or False? Such a salient point has yet to be mentioned in any news article I read.

Someone blocked a helluva lot more trails than just the likes of Skull though, and on a regular basis. My wife and I have hiked Lower Fromme quite a bit and funnily enough the trails that I'd loosely think of as old unmapped hiking trails but probably get ridden on a bit are now clear again. The area between the likes of Skull, and where I saw one of the cameras ( I guess I can say now as it's not there any more…..bottom of Crippler) is pretty massive, and much of it affected. Someone was very busy! At least her dogs got plenty of exercise I suppose :dog:

treezz
wow you are a ass

Jan. 27, 2015, 11:37 p.m.
Posts: 798
Joined: Feb. 16, 2010

She's already hung by social media. Give her a break. Trails are for everyone to enjoy at their own pace.

bump

"You know what's wrong with Vancouver? You can't pee off of your own balcony without getting in trouble"
- Phil Gordon

Jan. 28, 2015, 5:51 a.m.
Posts: 15758
Joined: May 29, 2004

She's already hung by social media. Give her a break. Trails are for everyone to enjoy at their own pace.

This is fair.

This whole episode "may" remind folks that we're not the only ones out there (bike primary trail or not)….and to maybe keep the higher speeds reserved for the bike parks and race tracks.

It IS possible to get along!

Pastor of Muppets

Jan. 28, 2015, 6:26 a.m.
Posts: 4841
Joined: May 19, 2003

i'm not vengeful , and i sure hope the bikers in the gallery will behave themselves when she has her day in court , but . . .

she shoulda thought about the consequences of her actions before she did them , and i'm talking about the physical act of obstructing the trails as well as the legal consequences as they are playing out now .

while i don't doubt she may have encountered bikers who were less than courteous , unless she produces solid documented evidence of such interactions , they are just the unsubstantiated stories of a classic NIMBY .

i feel bad for her , but not alot of sympathy coming from this computer . . . sorry .

Jan. 28, 2015, 6:55 a.m.
Posts: 16818
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

She's already hung by social media. Give her a break. Trails are for everyone to enjoy at their own pace.

So, if it were a 20-year old male perpetrating those same criminal acts of vandalism with intent to injure, would we demand the same forgiveness?

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity.

When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.

Jan. 28, 2015, 7:03 a.m.
Posts: 15758
Joined: May 29, 2004

So, if it were a 20-year old male perpetrating those same criminal acts of vandalism with intent to injure, would we demand the same forgiveness?

Jesus says yes. The same way we forgive trail braiders and people who climb Bobsled.

Pastor of Muppets

Jan. 28, 2015, 8:38 a.m.
Posts: 788
Joined: July 4, 2004

comment section on the province closed down

Jan. 28, 2015, 8:58 a.m.
Posts: 1055
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

They identified her today.
http://www.theprovince.com/travel/North+Vancouver+woman+afraid+leave+home+after+criminal/10765329/story.html

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

Jan. 28, 2015, 9:37 a.m.
Posts: 1081
Joined: Jan. 1, 2011

Haha, so perfect. Now that her husband has spoken to the media, he's waived his spousal privilege so the crown can call him as a witness to testify and he'll have to. I can hear their lawyer facepalming from here.

Ride, don't slide.

Jan. 28, 2015, 9:46 a.m.
Posts: 623
Joined: Sept. 7, 2011

No sympathy whatsoever for this elf entitled old XXX. My sympathies got to the people she affected.
Downhill trails=downhill speeds, Go walk your dogs ON LEASH on a proper trail.I have dogs and I have no problem doing that.
When I am riding I never have problems with hikers, almost always very friendly.
Except once when I was riding the Dh upper section on Juryn and a stupid women with her offleash poodle/squirrel yelled at me to slow down.She was walking up the trail. I stopped and and very politely reminded here that the trail is MTB trail built and maintained by mtb community and she shoud have her off leash "dog" on leash and maybe find another trail…
She had no idea it was bike trail.fine after that

Jan. 28, 2015, 10 a.m.
Posts: 10
Joined: Jan. 12, 2006

Little concerned by the mentality shown on here [HTML_REMOVED] in Cam's interview, that bikers should expect to be able to ride at whatever speed they see fit on biking primary trails. If the trail is open to the public, you should be able to stop within the distance you can see in front of you. Simple as that. A 'biking primary' sign at the trail head isn't a free pass to go nuts.

That said, cerealkilla hit the nail on the head with his post above regarding this cringe-worthy legal tactic. This woman went out [HTML_REMOVED] put lives at risk. The couple have a past history of disliking mountain bikers [HTML_REMOVED] these actions were nothing short of vindictive [HTML_REMOVED] malicious. The fact that she is now trying to play the victim [HTML_REMOVED] weasle out of it is disgusting. Hopefully the courts see through it.

Jan. 28, 2015, 10:27 a.m.
Posts: 16818
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Little concerned by the mentality shown on here [HTML_REMOVED] in Cam's interview, that bikers should expect to be able to ride at whatever speed they see fit on biking primary trails.

I don't think anyone has actually made that claim. I've read the whole thread, perhaps I missed it. Can you provide anything to back up this assertion?

If the trail is open to the public, you should be able to stop within the distance you can see in front of you. Simple as that. A 'biking primary' sign at the trail head isn't a free pass to go nuts.

I think most agree and behave this way. However, there are times when one simply can't brake - on a steep rock face, for example (of which there are several on Lower Skull). When someone places rocks and sticks at the bottom of steeps, intended to be an obstacle to cyclists, the intent is clear to me … to make the cyclist fall off the bike. That may not translate to a clear intent to injure (as the vandal may not have fully thought out possible consequences), but it sure points to something more than a simple plan to slow riders down.

People are acting the way normal people do when threatened. If there was a series of burglaries in the neighbourhood, there would be similar behaviour if the burglar were caught and identified. We have here a person who, with malicious intent, vandalized trails in a fashion that could easily have led to serious injury. While I don't support any kind of mob vengeance, I understand where it comes from.

I just hope the legal system doesn't lose sight of the fact that this individual engaged in criminal behaviour.

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity.

When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.

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