Skull Trail Saboteur Arrested and Charged
I didn't say forgive her, or that her actions are justified. I said give her a break. Maybe some community service working on trails in a private setting (not a public trail day) would be good for all.
Ah, yes, playing the victim card.
I think more than community hours as it would send a strong and clear message.
:canada:
Did a quick search to see if any past issues popped. Found an article from 2012. Apparently, these people do not like other people or having higher density in their North Van.
http://www.nsnews.com/opinion/letters/lynn-valley-s-village-atmosphere-at-risk-1.369747
"We need a new mall, not additional housing." I guess anything that upsets their status quo is not appreciated. Just another page from MC. I have my house up here on the mountains, now the rest of you, just bugger off/
I wonder if they realize what the state of "their" beloved trails would be or how many bridges would be in place across the creeks if not for the MTB community.
So, if it were a 20-year old male perpetrating those same criminal acts of vandalism with intent to injure, would we demand the same forgiveness?
that's where the flaw lies in this and many (most) of the "punish her!" posts on here, fb and province, etc. do you know for certain that her intent was to injure? i think not.
i made a comment on the toe's fb page about perspective and the same can be said here:
interesting perspective in regards to the comments here and online. if life was only as simple as we think it to be.
We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer
I don't think anyone has actually made that claim. I've read the whole thread, perhaps I missed it. Can you provide anything to back up this assertion?
I'm going to re-cast my comment as I'm not sure my meaning was clear. I'm not saying that riders should be riding at a speed such that they have no right to complain about logs etc being on the trail. My concern is that this woman is using the (pathetic) excuse that she was acting in self-defense as she felt endangered by high-speed bikers almost hitting her on the trail. In some comments sections (which I'm all too aware attract the lowest common denominator), the mentality appears to be, "What does she expect? It's a biking trail!" It's THIS attitude that is unhelpful. Even if you come across someone hiking on a biking primary trail, what's the harm in slowing down, saying hi, and being friendly?
Comments like Cam's, from here: http://www.macleans.ca/society/life/war-of-the-woods-bikers-versus-hikers/
If you come around a blind corner, you have no ability to stop, says McRae, 49, a pioneer of the radical, freeriding North Shore style of mountain biking. The trails are so steep and so fast.
Are very easily taken out of context. Cam was referring to biker's inability to stop if debris etc are placed on trails but, sure enough, the top comment in that article quotes it to infer that biker's are putting other user's safety at risk by travelling at high speeds and not being able to stop. Everyone on these boards knows that it's a lot easier to spot a hiker at eye level and slow down than it is to spot a branch or hole in a trail at the bottom of a rockface.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that, as a community, we should be careful to avoid fanning the flames of the minority of other users who will twist words to justify their own vindictive actions. Then again, I'm sure that minority will find other ways to justify their actions and vindicate themselves, so maybe my point is moot…
that's where the flaw lies in this and many (most) of the "punish her!" posts on here, fb and province, etc. do you know for certain that her intent was to injure? i think not.
i made a comment on the toe's fb page about perspective and the same can be said here:
interesting perspective in regards to the comments here and online. if life was only as simple as we think it to be.
I think some folks look at punishment as vengeance which is wrong. Punishment is about correcting wrong behavior. I think being outed and charged has done the corrective treatment. I doubt that she re-offends. It's done. Move on.
Debate? Bikes are made for riding not pushing.
I think you can argue that her intent, if not to injure, was to deter use of the trail by bikers through the threat of injury. Given her claim of riders travelling at high speed, she should certainly have known that they may A) not have time to stop before hitting the said obstacles, and hopefully B) be deterred by the threat of injury from using the trail she wants for herself.
As indicated, the trail was built by bikers for bikers and to share with others. The behaviour of riding it (even at speed) was already established when she began her campaign of sabotage. Therefore, the intent surely seems to involve knowingly placing riders at risk for the purpose of claiming control over the trail. The "knowingly" part is key. She will certainly seek to backpedal, and say she just wanted to slow them down. However, she openly admits to seeing people go by at high speed, and voices concerns about her safety due to riders' ability to control themselves. I think this clearly demonstrate the knowledge that prompted her actions.
Also consider the standard of care and judgment here. As I understand it, a reasonable person in her position should have known that her actions were likely to result in, or create the conditions for a significant injury to be incurred by a mountain biker.
As for forgiveness, I actually favor a light sentence if she is found guilty. I see no benefit for jailing such a person. However, that "sympathetic" attitude should not extend to excusing her from the full process of charge and trial. A proper trial and an clear verdict would go a long way to sending a message to all parties that use of violence or threats of violence to exert one's selfish vision and interests upon public space is unacceptable. There have been enough examples of injured riders in other cases to warrant a general deterrence to others against similar future behaviour, and a specific deterrent to her that this behaviour is in fact illegal and will not be tolerated. Period end of story, no exceptions for seniors or any class of people. I'd even be okay with a discharge (absolute or conditional), or as I suggested before, instead of trail work, how about community service time working with people with spinal injuries.
I didn't say forgive her, or that her actions are justified. I said give her a break. Maybe some community service working on trails in a private setting (not a public trail day) would be good for all.
So If I decided to head down to the elementary school on my street where kids play and lace the playground with broken glass and razor blades you'd be ok with some community service as punishment. I mean those kids play load, have some sympathy for an old guy who just wants to live in serenity.
So If I decided to head down to the elementary school on my street where kids play and lace the playground with broken glass and razor blades you'd be ok with some community service as punishment. I mean those kids play load, have some sympathy for an old guy who just wants to live in serenity.
quoted for lunacy
We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer
So If I decided to head down to the elementary school on my street where kids play and lace the playground with broken glass and razor blades you'd be ok with some community service as punishment. I mean those kids play load, have some sympathy for an old guy who just wants to live in serenity.
Apples and oranges IMO.
I think being outed is probably punishment enough. It sends a clear message that people are watching.
But seeing as we're throwing scenarios out there,should people who build "dangerous" bike trails be punished with a heavy hand?
Pastor of Muppets
I have no idea what her actual intent was but having come across her (alleged) work numerous times on skull I found that the logs, rocks and branches were more of a nuisance than a danger(none were set up as punji sticks that i encountered). Once i saw the first log on on the trail (after the little log drop at the beginning) i expected to see more, which i did. Now if someone was not aware that this was going on or was not paying much attention to the trail in front of them they could have easily run right into the obstacles. She still deserves what has happened to her and i hope she and others learn from this.
Errr, "saboteur"
You reap what you sew.
Errrr, "sow".
When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.
Errrr, "sow".
hey, maybe she knits sweaters in her spare time that say i hate mtn bikers.
We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer
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