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Shore's Future not so bright

May 15, 2014, 4:45 p.m.
Posts: 2099
Joined: April 22, 2006

If the trail is too easy:
- Ride a fully rigid
- Track down some Rhinolites with some panaracer smokes and put them on your bike
- Strap a couple of pounds of weight to your bike
- Get cantilever brakes

Then things will be closer to the "good old days".

FYP :lol:

May 15, 2014, 5:19 p.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

^^ I lol'd! but can't help feel like maybe he's more this kinda guy…

May 15, 2014, 5:36 p.m.
Posts: 3518
Joined: May 27, 2008

^^ I lol'd! but can't help feel like maybe he's more this kinda guy…

That looks like an anime version of a bike, all bulbous and "cute".

Being cheap is OK. Being a clueless sanctimonious condescending douchebag is just Vlad's MO.

May 15, 2014, 7:29 p.m.
Posts: 145
Joined: Aug. 1, 2010

20 min of typing, select -[HTML_REMOVED] delete… there's no point. I fold.

May 15, 2014, 10:59 p.m.
Posts: 1111
Joined: Jan. 9, 2007

Oh these threads amuse the hell outta me. Can someone fill in the blanks? lol _!

Mark Wood's a prick. :fu:

diggin

May 16, 2014, 11:56 a.m.
Posts: 5731
Joined: June 24, 2003

Kind of surprised that a fellow that has ridden the Shore for 30 years, like myself, doesn't realize that what some call old school trails are really middle school. I recall riding severed and executioner, expresso etc. when they were first created. Bikes had little suspension and rim brakes. Trails were smooth. trails got worn out and rough as bike technologies improved allowing people to ride blown out eroded trails. At the same time what were initially skinny bridges over puddles became trail features and became elevated and longer. A small sector of of the riding community liked that stuff and I can completely understand why a rider would be disappointed that that type of trail has mostly disappeared. But that hardly means that the futures not bright.

I never liked the skinny circus stunt type stuff and I kind of was in the same boat back then and thought that trails were going to crap. Now that flow and speed are what is being built I and my hardtail are much happier.

I suppose that some people like the Pink Starfish drop to flat over and over but I can't see that as fun myself. All I can suggest is that if you like Starfish like it was, get a permit and buff it yourself. If you aren't able to do that, show up and NSMBA meetings and ask that it be returned to it's former glory. But if you're one of the very few that liked it, probably won't happen. I'll shed no tears for that trail. And I have worked on it on trail days way back.

Debate? Bikes are made for riding not pushing.

May 16, 2014, 12:55 p.m.
Posts: 967
Joined: Feb. 28, 2014

I can't believe someone would say "the future is not so bright" when in fact the North Shore is one of, if not, the most healthy mtb scenes on the planet. You have no idea. Try venturing outside your little realm and see what else is out there. Some places don't have trail advocacy groups, trail days, nor legal trails to ride. From an outsider looking in, it looks like a rich kid complaining about what he doesn't have. You have it so good you have no idea.

May 16, 2014, 1:14 p.m.
Posts: 1926
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

I can't believe someone would say "the future is not so bright" when in fact the North Shore is one of, if not, the most healthy mtb scenes on the planet. You have no idea. Try venturing outside your little realm and see what else is out there. Some places don't have trail advocacy groups, trail days, nor legal trails to ride. From an outsider looking in, it looks like a rich kid complaining about what he doesn't have. You have it so good you have no idea.

or people are fighting to make it even better than it already is.

i will say that is one of the things i appreciate about mark wood and all those, past and present, who have been involved to keep the shore alive and well.

kudos to everyone who's had a hand, no matter how small, in keeping our little paradise going.

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

May 16, 2014, 6:20 p.m.
Posts: 145
Joined: May 13, 2014

I can't believe someone would say "the future is not so bright" when in fact the North Shore is one of, if not, the most healthy mtb scenes on the planet. You have no idea. Try venturing outside your little realm and see what else is out there. Some places don't have trail advocacy groups, trail days, nor legal trails to ride. From an outsider looking in, it looks like a rich kid complaining about what he doesn't have. You have it so good you have no idea.

You wax poetic but you are not looking 10 or 20 years ahead. All paved trails? No rough hardcore? No Mountain in the very bike you ride? Human evolution has taught me everything. We all tend to easy, safe and unchallenged. That is the human condition. Don't blame me. I cannot hold back Human Nature. And I was never rich. If I were, I wouldn't be making such a point knowing I could go elsewhere. That is the philosophy of the rich.

May 16, 2014, 6:24 p.m.
Posts: 145
Joined: May 13, 2014

Kind of surprised that a fellow that has ridden the Shore for 30 years, like myself, doesn't realize that what some call old school trails are really middle school. I recall riding severed and executioner, expresso etc. when they were first created. Bikes had little suspension and rim brakes. Trails were smooth. trails got worn out and rough as bike technologies improved allowing people to ride blown out eroded trails. At the same time what were initially skinny bridges over puddles became trail features and became elevated and longer. A small sector of of the riding community liked that stuff and I can completely understand why a rider would be disappointed that that type of trail has mostly disappeared. But that hardly means that the futures not bright.

I never liked the skinny circus stunt type stuff and I kind of was in the same boat back then and thought that trails were going to crap. Now that flow and speed are what is being built I and my hardtail are much happier.

I suppose that some people like the Pink Starfish drop to flat over and over but I can't see that as fun myself. All I can suggest is that if you like Starfish like it was, get a permit and buff it yourself. If you aren't able to do that, show up and NSMBA meetings and ask that it be returned to it's former glory. But if you're one of the very few that liked it, probably won't happen. I'll shed no tears for that trail. And I have worked on it on trail days way back.

But some might like the drop to flat. Are we going to close the trail to exclude them simply because we cannot do what they do? Personally I love Pink Starfish. I love the rockface at the end, and with the exception with a couple of features, I love Pink Starfish. But this is my point. Am I exclusionary or solitary? If I am the latter, then then we have trouble.

May 16, 2014, 6:34 p.m.
Posts: 967
Joined: Feb. 28, 2014

You wax poetic but you are not looking 10 or 20 years ahead. All paved trails? No rough hardcore? No Mountain in the very bike you ride? Human evolution has taught me everything. We all tend to easy, safe and unchallenged. That is the human condition. Don't blame me. I cannot hold back Human Nature. And I was never rich. If I were, I wouldn't be making such a point knowing I could go elsewhere. That is the philosophy of the rich.

How do you explain why people like riding in places where technical features are few and far between? How do explain why some of those people are some of the most gifted riders on the planet? You do know that speed is a challenge unto itself right? The old NS trails were great for breeding technically gifted riders but fast riders they were not. Two different traits. You probably come from the former rather than the latter, and that's ok.

In fact, the maintenance being done right now is for longevity.

All that said, its good to have gnarl. I cut my teeth on the NS mountains and loved it, but I would have also loved to have something faster.

The rich kid metaphor was just that, a comparison.

May 17, 2014, 12:04 p.m.
Posts: 13026
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Hey blackfly,

your nickname reminds me of a song by Alanis Morrisette, called "ironic" in which she sings about a blackfly in a glass of Chardonnay - you look forward to a nice glass and all you see is a blackfly, a tiny insectr when compared to the glass as a whole. But it still can ruin thirst or appetite.

I am an outsidert looking in, quite literally since I do not live in Vancouver or BC, but I have been following the boards for quite some time, know some folks personally and have ridden on a few trails there.

And I would like to ask you a few questions if you do not mind, because simply put, I do not understand your issue. I know where you are coming from - but I still do not understand your issue.

You wax poetic but you are not looking 10 or 20 years ahead. All paved trails? No rough hardcore? No Mountain in the very bike you ride? Human evolution has taught me everything. We all tend to easy, safe and unchallenged. That is the human condition. Don't blame me. I cannot hold back Human Nature. And I was never rich. If I were, I wouldn't be making such a point knowing I could go elsewhere. That is the philosophy of the rich.

I assume that you know why there is (as you perceive it) no longer the amount of rough hardcore on your favorite mountain rides, right?
You are aware of the conflicts that took place, the change of the situation on the Shore as a whole, the increase in traffic (both from new local riders to tourists), the ongoing erosion of trails to a point when these same trails were literally creekbeds?!

I could go on, but I think you get my point.

Where is the difficulty in understanding that change (a change in trail design, for VARIOUS reasons already stated by other) was (and is) needed?

There are quite some well-thought out posts in the thread you started - did you even bother to read them?

But some might like the drop to flat. Are we going to close the trail to exclude them simply because we cannot do what they do? Personally I love Pink Starfish. I love the rockface at the end, and with the exception with a couple of features, I love Pink Starfish. But this is my point. Am I exclusionary or solitary? If I am the latter, then then we have trouble.

Did you read that you were asked why you do not step up and may restore Pink Starfish to its former, as you see it, glory?

Where is the issue in starting some maintenance yourself? Since you are quite "old", I could imagine that you know a few folks who know a thing or two about maintenance/repair?!

The other day I saw a video of two riders (one male, the other female) riding on single-crown bikes on Cypress - to be honest, it did not look like there was no gnar in there. Maybe not Monster T gnar, but that fork was overbuilt, even if it was cool - a necessary step in the evolution of riding full-suspension bikes.

And why should there be trouble if you were the ONLY rider on the Shore as a whole who misses such trails and such blown-out trails?

I honestly do not understand your apparent refusal.

Since I am an outsider, I have to agree to the opinion of some that the riding community on the Shore is incredible. What the community as a whole has managed to achive is quite a feat. Personally, I would be more than happy if the riders in my area had such a motivation, drive, determination and vision to keep the trails open, find a solution and a way for a dialogue between residents, bikers AND the local authorities. Maybe you should watch Kranked II and III again. And finish the evening with the last three of Digger's films. I have to agree, Danger's The Flying Circus was impressive, it still gives me the creeps if I see him and Super T ride it. But then, trails like that are hard to maintain - and keep open. The situation as a whole has changed.

As far as I understand it, there are no more chainsaw massacres, but an ongoing dialogue to keep the trails open for the riding community. I could be wrong, since the board is no longer as open-minded as it once was. Maybe there are official workers who still dismantle woodwork or trails. I have to admit I do not know. Still, the situation is as it is.

And trust me, you have no idea how different and difficult it can be in other places.

"You don't learn from experience. You learn from reflecting on the experience."
- Kristen Ulmer

May 17, 2014, 12:11 p.m.
Posts: 1111
Joined: Jan. 9, 2007

Im interested to see how he uses the word wax in his next post.

diggin

May 19, 2014, 2:51 p.m.
Posts: 3
Joined: Oct. 7, 2013

:swiss:
Well to compartmentalize just one aspect of this thread that was mentioned in the OP and in quite a few replies:
I think the Shore develops a unique skill set that might be over looked by those already possessing it. Riding a AM bike on Upper Oilcan, Ladies, Lower Ladies, Lower Skull, Boundary…requires some serious skill. And watching old-school guys doing rear wheel hops, track stands, and wheelie drops is amazing. This unique skill set is important and has its high lights in Trials Riding and Dirt Jumping. And in my opinion, certain trails still embrace it and it would be nice to them stick around.

Sure, I am sitting here in my shoulder and ankle brace longing for the good old days too.

May 19, 2014, 6:51 p.m.
Posts: 221
Joined: March 27, 2014

Meanwhile… On Cypress…. Gord is handing out his MTB Cypress stickers and generating a discussion and awareness for community of like minded riders and builders focused on Sharing, Protecting, and being Stewards for the New Cypress Advanced MTB trails.

The video of my presentation at the NSMBA Open House will be available, hopefully, this week. I will link it off our MTB Cypress Facebook Group page.

Mr Blackfly: you have to watch that presentation- though focused on Cypress it is appropriate here too.

It is not that the Answers have changed with respect to biking culture or trail experience (we all want the thrill) ;

It is that the Questions now being Asked OF US- the Builder’s, Riders, and Trail Association’s- HAVE.

The overall operational and managerial nature of riding on The Shore (insert active land owners asserting their legal rights) has shifted in past years, in conjunction with the popularity you describe.

Now it is NOT all about keeping the old school past Riding Experience- it is about Stewardship- not for your desires but for every young rider 30 years your junior- like you say when you cannot ride anymore. We ride on other people’s land. We need to take care of it- for us, and the future.

Could you re-write your essay, with the same method of debate, focusing on the early Model T Ford, and the first generations of motorcars and how they impacted the horse and carriages lifestyle, attitudes and technology?

In that context, you see clearly we cannot paddle back up stream. What you speak of largely in your essay is water under the bridge, with a few fishing lines in there with some clever bait and lures.

Talk less, Say More.

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