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Ride to Singing Pass?

Nov. 16, 2012, 11:02 a.m.
Posts: 8935
Joined: Dec. 23, 2005

I don't really get why Whistler Heli would continue to renew their tenure with-in the park. They don't use it nearly as much as the tenure to the west and north.

I'd love to see some hard data on the number of flights into the park vs the rest of their tenure.

Nov. 16, 2012, 11:04 a.m.
Posts: 10077
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

I don't really get why Whistler Heli would continue to renew their tenure with-in the park. They don't use it nearly as much as the tenure to the west and north.

I'd love to see some hard data on the number of flights into the park vs the rest of their tenure.

Maybe the most obvious answer is to stop anyone else using it?

Nov. 16, 2012, 12:12 p.m.
Posts: 10077
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

It looks like BC Parks doesn't think biking is one of the popular things you can do in any of its parks:
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/things_to_do.html

But if you search "biking" on their site it is mentioned 468 times.

"bike" is mentioned 190 times.

"cycling" is mentioned 732 times.

Seems like there is a big disconnect.

Nov. 16, 2012, 12:18 p.m.
Posts: 10077
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

ugh, not good for us…..although 85% of respondents think it would be okay to have mtb use, no recommendation to allow use.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/planning/mgmtplns/garibaldi/garibaldi-park-draft-mp-amendment.pdf

The plan amendment proposes no expansion of mountain biking in the study area, and therefore the direction with respect to mountain biking in the 1990 Master Plan will not be amended.

This contradicts this (bold text is mine):

We are proposing to amend the sections of the 1990 Garibaldi Park Master Plan related to: land management, cultural resources, hiking/backpacking, mountain biking, winter recreation, and commercial recreation services.

From:
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/planning/mgmtplns/garibaldi/garibaldi_mp.html

Nov. 16, 2012, 12:54 p.m.
Posts: 200
Joined: Sept. 19, 2003

Jerome and Tim are down from Whistler right now and we were discussing this topic last night as Jerome was scanning the email thread. A couple of things we're doing here locally, that could help you folks.

1. I'm giving our land managers a full tour of Galbraith as an example of the types of trails (XC, FR, directional, multi use, etc.) that we've built and maintain.
2. I'm giving them copies of the IMBA trail solutions book to further go over how we build trails that are both fun and sustainable.
3. We're going to be inviting them to our future build academies (paging Mark Wood!).
4. They've got two major issues: their aging user base and lack of funding. Most hiking groups/clubs in WA state have an average age of 60+ and aren't getting any younger. I discuss how involving mt. bikers, climbers, etc. into these areas helps GAIN support by younger people for parks and future funding.
5. IMO, mt. bikers want to stay ON trail when trails are built well - whether that be in the Alpine, in the bike park or anywhere. Anecdotally, I've found hikers tend to braid and explore off trail far more than mt. bikers. I've seen this on many hiking only areas - even in Wilderness.

Cheers,
EB

Nov. 16, 2012, 1:40 p.m.
Posts: 6328
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Jerome and Tim are down from Whistler right now and we were discussing this topic last night as Jerome was scanning the email thread. A couple of things we're doing here locally, that could help you folks.

1. I'm giving our land managers a full tour of Galbraith as an example of the types of trails (XC, FR, directional, multi use, etc.) that we've built and maintain.
2. I'm giving them copies of the IMBA trail solutions book to further go over how we build trails that are both fun and sustainable.
3. We're going to be inviting them to our future build academies (paging Mark Wood!).
4. They've got two major issues: their aging user base and lack of funding. Most hiking groups/clubs in WA state have an average age of 60+ and aren't getting any younger. I discuss how involving mt. bikers, climbers, etc. into these areas helps GAIN support by younger people for parks and future funding.
5. IMO, mt. bikers want to stay ON trail when trails are built well - whether that be in the Alpine, in the bike park or anywhere. Anecdotally, I've found hikers tend to braid and explore off trail far more than mt. bikers. I've seen this on many hiking only areas - even in Wilderness.

Cheers,
EB

This is BC Parks we're talking about here. One big government bureaucracy. They know all this but are bogged down by process, inertia, legislation and its just a job for them.

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Nov. 16, 2012, 4:54 p.m.
Posts: 1183
Joined: June 20, 2010

Holy fuck. i just read the majority of the plan. Its just terrible.
Why did they even bother asking for people's input. Clearly the stakeholders are the only force to be reckoned with. Not the public.
I love this line.
A number of organisations, including tourism operators, local businesses, and heli-ski/cat companies, wrote letters in support of heli-skiing in the park.

so many jabroni's

Nov. 16, 2012, 5:54 p.m.
Posts: 200
Joined: Sept. 19, 2003

This is BC Parks we're talking about here. One big government bureaucracy. They know all this but are bogged down by process, inertia, legislation and its just a job for them.

Hey Sharon,

Totally get that…it's just a reality of dealing with government and it sucks. As you know, we're dealing with the DNR at the North Fork for 6 years and they still closed them down. We finally got a break with State Parks on Chuckanut which took over a decade to get.

EB

Nov. 21, 2012, 9:32 a.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

here's a good report out of NZ about re-opening a national park trail to bikes on a seasonal basis over a 3 year trial period….yet again, the sky did not fall….
http://www.groundeffect.co.nz/files/slushfund/docs/49-2079593646.pdf

please be sure to send in your comments on the draft amendment, I'm working trying to piece together a response and I think one of the salient points at this juncture is that they've contradicted themselves quite a bit with their rationale for accepting huts/helis but continuing the ban on bikes.

Further, I think the amendment should at the very least leave the door open for the possibility of it happening in the future, or at least discussing/planning solutions in advance of at least a trial period. By keeping the status quo at this point they are locking us out for the foreseeable future. They seem to admit that with adequate management solutions and trail upgrades most, if not all, of the concerns could be relatively easily mitigated. But they appear to not even want to leave that possibility open and sit down with a group like worca to come up with a good management plan, and to leverage the experience of the group for trail work and fund raising.

The status quo has proven to be unacceptable, but it's the easy way out here, BC Parks apparently doesn't want to put in any effort and think that by maintaining a prohibition that things will magically be awesome.

Nov. 26, 2012, 9:55 a.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

open house TONIGHT in Vancouver! Please go out and comment, make sure they hear that it's unacceptable to ignore that 85% of respondents want mountain bike access explored further. WORCA is working on their response, and it's focusing on the need to meet with Parks and discuss the options available for managing this resource for hikers and bikers, and help make the trail system safe and sustainable for the long term.

Vancouver - Monday, November 26, Robson Square - Room C–150, 4:00pm–7:00pm
Whistler - Thursday, December 6, Whistler Conference Centre, Garibaldi A Room, 4:00pm–7:00pm

Nov. 26, 2012, 10:25 a.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

The status quo has proven to be unacceptable, but it's the easy way out here, BC Parks apparently doesn't want to put in any effort and think that by maintaining a prohibition that things will magically be awesome.

Just proves that most problems have nothing to do with elected officials but have everything to do with the bureaucrats.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Nov. 27, 2012, 11:33 a.m.
Posts: 10077
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

open house TONIGHT in Vancouver! Please go out and comment, make sure they hear that it's unacceptable to ignore that 85% of respondents want mountain bike access explored further. WORCA is working on their response, and it's focusing on the need to meet with Parks and discuss the options available for managing this resource for hikers and bikers, and help make the trail system safe and sustainable for the long term.

Was anyone able to go to the open house last night? (I was already booked so couldn't make it.)

How did it go? Was BC Parks open to suggestions?

Nov. 27, 2012, 12:44 p.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Was anyone able to go to the open house last night? (I was already booked so couldn't make it.)

How did it go? Was BC Parks open to suggestions?

a worca rep attended, I'll try and post a synopsis later, it isn't promising….but the rationale is filled with hypocrisy and outdated stereotypes, in my opinion.

Nov. 27, 2012, 2:54 p.m.
Posts: 1219
Joined: May 4, 2006

I managed to attend from around about 5:15 so missed the actual presentation but caught most of the open discussion/Q[HTML_REMOVED]A.

Most questions were about the heli-skiing tenure and impact on skitourers [HTML_REMOVED] mountain goats. Apparantely the mountain goat population is quite healthy and the amount of 'negative impact' on ski tourers is minimal (about half a dozen cases reported each season)

As regards mountain biking, they (Jennie?) were pretty emphatic there will be no expansion in the study area, though they acknowledge there is unmet demand for alpine riding in the sea to sky corridor.

They mentioned that MOT and forestry were investigating the possibilty of some alpine trails in Rainbow/Sproatt area.

Altogether not very encouraging and very poor mountain biker turn out compared to DNV meetings…

Nov. 27, 2012, 3:59 p.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

They mentioned that MOT and forestry were investigating the possibilty of some alpine trails in Rainbow/Sproatt area.

true, but beside the point, this plan deals with Garibaldi.

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