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Revitalizing the CBC trail on Seymour

June 14, 2021, 11:59 a.m.
Posts: 58
Joined: Sept. 30, 2010

Posted by: heckler

Email your thoughts to lscr@metrovancouver.org

Or else keep hopelessly hoping they’ll take care of it.  Which they won’t.

Mail sent...  

Lees and Associates...  Main emphasis seems on Cemetery planning from their web page, hope that doesn't mean a cemetery for CBC...

June 14, 2021, 4:33 p.m.
Posts: 29
Joined: April 27, 2018

I've sent in an email...I've emailed in the past...really a giant black hole.

I'm concerned though, especially after seeing this article; https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/motorcycle-club-ousted-out-of-popular-metro-vancouver-park-1.6063131. 

It seems like Metro Parks really doesn't care about longstanding relationships. They are more than happy to dump partners and move on...I'm not really sure why they don't actually engage with their constituents and partners? It would be great to hear from NSMBA, to know more about what is going on or what the plan is...

June 14, 2021, 5:46 p.m.
Posts: 1616
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: icullis

I've sent in an email...I've emailed in the past...really a giant black hole.

I'm concerned though, especially after seeing this article; https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/motorcycle-club-ousted-out-of-popular-metro-vancouver-park-1.6063131. 

It seems like Metro Parks really doesn't care about longstanding relationships. They are more than happy to dump partners and move on...I'm not really sure why they don't actually engage with their constituents and partners? It would be great to hear from NSMBA, to know more about what is going on or what the plan is...

Could be squeaky wheel syndrome, could be personal bias or could be systemic bias - hard to say. Unfortunately Metro board members are not directly elected by the citizens of the Metro Vancouver region to the Metro board. Board members are elected councilors that are appointed by their respective city/district council, so it makes it difficult to hold them to account when they come from all over the metro region. That said, there is a process where citizens can challenge the propositions put forward by the metro board. It's a tough go tho, as it requires 10% of the eligible electors across the entire metro region to voice their discontent with a board proposition. As there are about 1,750,000 voters in metro a petition would require about 175,000 people to sign on in order to get the board to even consider changing their proposition. If enough sign-on to oppose a proposition, it would go to a public vote. Public perception is huge in these things unless one is personally involved, and I would imagine getting 175,000 across the metro region to sign a petition against a Metro board proposition would be a pretty tough challenge.

http://www.metrovancouver.org/boards/BoardPublications/AAPBackgroundInfo.pdf

Edit - your CBC story link is broken for some reason

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/motorcycle-club-ousted-out-of-popular-metro-vancouver-park-1.6063131


 Last edited by: syncro on June 14, 2021, 5:50 p.m., edited 5 times in total.
June 14, 2021, 6:47 p.m.
Posts: 399
Joined: July 8, 2005

Posted by: icullis

I've sent in an email...I've emailed in the past...really a giant black hole.

I'm concerned though, especially after seeing this article; https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/motorcycle-club-ousted-out-of-popular-metro-vancouver-park-1.6063131. 

It seems like Metro Parks really doesn't care about longstanding relationships. They are more than happy to dump partners and move on...I'm not really sure why they don't actually engage with their constituents and partners? It would be great to hear from NSMBA, to know more about what is going on or what the plan is...

Also, the division of Metro that NSMBA deals with for Seymour Trails is LSCR (Lower Seymour Conservation Reserve), which manages the watershed, and is separate from Metro Vancouver Parks.

June 14, 2021, 7:03 p.m.
Posts: 399
Joined: July 8, 2005

Posted by: SixZeroSixOne

Done...not sure what Metros processes are.

Do they walk thru the trail themselves and detail the specific work they want a trail builder to do, or do they sub-contract out the entire trail upkeep to a trail builder and take a more hands-off approach?

Anyway, I've asked whether they can share the plans for CBC- I don't want to go in guns blazing to start off with!

The processes Metro uses are varied.

They sometimes do their own walk-throughs that are primarily focused on environmental impact of the trail, but also safety, and signage. 

For trails permitted with NSMBA (TNT/Cabin, Corkscrew, Dale's, Forever After, High School, west end of Bridle Path), the NSMBA builders conduct their own walk-through and submit a trail assessment and work plan to Metro for the trails they are responsible for (e.g. I look after Dale's and Corkscrew and Bridle). We then do a walk through with a Metro staff member to discuss the proposed work plan and make adjustments if appropriate. The NSMBA builders then can do the work approved in the work plan and submit work reports as the work is completed. Usually if replacing a wood feature, this merits its own separate walk through to discuss the design and sourcing of wood etc (e.g. there was a bridge at the top of Ned's that a few of us replaced a year or so ago).

Sometimes Metro also hires contractors, both to do trail work and to complete trail assessments and work plans. Metro isn't always very good at communicating with the NSMBA.

I'm not on the NSMBA board anymore, but I do know that IMBA Canada was hired to create a proposal for TNT/Cabin. And recently IMBA, Metro, and the NSMBA builders did a walk through for it.

I'm not sure exactly what process they have set up for CBC, so I think that's an excellent question to have asked them. :-)

June 15, 2021, 10:39 a.m.
Posts: 254
Joined: March 14, 2017

IMBA....  lol, that's not going to go well.  They yet to have built a trail that's worth riding.  Good luck in that zone.

June 15, 2021, 8:04 p.m.
Posts: 14564
Joined: Dec. 16, 2003

Posted by: LoamtoHome

IMBA....  lol, that's not going to go well.  They yet to have built a trail that's worth riding.  Good luck in that zone.

They have built a few things that had to be repaired to be rideable though

June 15, 2021, 9:22 p.m.
Posts: 1189
Joined: May 4, 2006

Posted by: DaveM

They have built a few things that had to be repaired to be rideable though

Anyone know what trails in the Sea-to-Sky area that IMBA have constructed (or overseen maintenance of)?

I've just assumed NSMBA/SORCA/WORCO/FVMBA/TORCA oversee all the trails in their area but I'm guessing that's not correct (kinda obvious now I think about it as I believe Pipeline isn't an "NSMBA" trail)

June 15, 2021, 11:01 p.m.
Posts: 18067
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

https://imbacanada.com/imba-programs/model-trails/

IMBA Canada are based in Squamish.  Also a volunteer organization with a staff of two according to the website.


 Last edited by: heckler on June 15, 2021, 11:04 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
June 15, 2021, 11:32 p.m.
Posts: 1189
Joined: May 4, 2006

Posted by: heckler

https://imbacanada.com/imba-programs/model-trails/

IMBA Canada are based in Squamish.  Also a volunteer organization with a staff of two according to the website.

Yeah, seems a bit weird to me that, locally at least, IMBA Canada has such a low profile (and such a poor reputation for trail designs wrt rider experience relative to more typical BC trails).

I'm also not sure how they justify putting their names against some of the trails listed on their website. Comfortably Numb...really? I'm pretty sure that was built by a Whistler local and IMBA had a conference in Whistler and just decided to partake in a ride on that trail and them promoted it's "Epic" status.

Not sure how IMBA Canada got into a position where a land owner such as Metro Vancouver would consider them when contracting out the future of such a signature trail as CBC...

June 16, 2021, 12:33 a.m.
Posts: 1677
Joined: July 11, 2014

Have never met anyone with a positive reaction to IMBA. I believe Comfortably Numb and others are "IMBA Epic" trails, it doesn't mean an IMBA entity built them, they just highlight certain trails for whatever criteria they have. CN is awesome but the epic designation is stupid when you have Sproatt alpine in play.

June 17, 2021, 6:52 p.m.
Posts: 3462
Joined: May 23, 2006

I thought the IMBA were a buncha' x-country weenies? Hence CN would be epic for the likes of them.

June 18, 2021, 12:27 p.m.
Posts: 780
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: tungsten

I thought the IMBA were a buncha' x-country weenies? Hence CN would be epic for the likes of them.

Long, smooth and unnecessarily twisty like it was designed by a toddler on acid chasing butterflies? 

Do you like to double back 5' away from a section of trail you just rode? 

Constantly be climbing but not gaining any elevation? PERFECTION.

June 18, 2021, 12:33 p.m.
Posts: 159
Joined: April 26, 2004

I would like to try that Chasing Butterflies on Acid trail ;-)

June 18, 2021, 12:59 p.m.
Posts: 1189
Joined: May 4, 2006

Posted by: craw

Posted by: tungsten

I thought the IMBA were a buncha' x-country weenies? Hence CN would be epic for the likes of them.

Long, smooth and unnecessarily twisty like it was designed by a toddler on acid chasing butterflies? 

Do you like to double back 5' away from a section of trail you just rode? 

Constantly be climbing but not gaining any elevation? PERFECTION.

See, I must be weird but I actually like CN every now and again (for novelty value?) but I'm grateful not all trails are like that!

(I definitely do NOT want CBC to end up like that!)

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