Pink Starfish

I don't mind new school smashing berms, but Starfish/Boundary/Groovula was on old fave. Would like to see it back sooner than later. I'm also thankful that high 4" skinnies are finally dead, I was growing very tired of riding around with bent rotors and twisted rear mechs.

Dave, you never fail to speak the truth.
The difference with 'you should do this' and 'I'm going to do this' is pretty massive on these here boards.
The world is run by those who show up.
Then guys with the old 'dumb down' shit…just laughable they can't find any more gnar.

Just my opinion and not looking to start an argument (this means you, Woodro) I'd bet that if individuals were ALLOWED to maintain and revitalize the woodwork and bigger moves on some of the old trails, they would step up and do it. Knowing they would not get the stamp of approval (which I understand, due to liability concerns) likely keeps many folk away and focusing their efforts elsewhere.

Structures/Skinnies are going the way of the dodo bird for 3 reasons. Land Managers don't like them, nobody maintains them and most people don't want to ride them.

If you can't ride a few "slick rungs" then please go ride burnaby mountain or the sea wall.

Sadly enough the times of dangerous dan and the likes of 10 foot 4" skinnies to terrible transitions is gone, some for the better some not. What we are seeing now is the last remains of how the shore came about. A place where people were scared to ride some days. With the growing sport, more people and now sanctioning bodies that means this type of style is now unsafe or dangerous to the DNV.

What we have now is the nsmba, which is like whistler. Trails for all but none that someone could get seriously hurt on(if an actual good rider). There are some double black diamonds in nsmba's bag of goods but in reality most trails are blue and mayyyybeeeee black.

Case in point, boogieman. Once a knarly double black, only thing on that trail now that is double black is the last rock face section. Progression yes, since long gone is the possibility that someone might actually think about their skill level and relate it to the trail sign and difficulty.

You can't stop a sport from evolving but you sure can bitch about it like woman. Take it with a grain of salt but we are heading into the berm busting shralping GAY time of mountain biking. You know, when a sport get's so popular that people stop giving a fuck about trails and just destroy everything. Don't worry, after all the fan boy tld onezee wearing posers leave the shore will return, maybe not on the north shore but I know a lot of technically badass trails that make the best of today's north shore look like stanley park trails.

Would be interesting to see the stats if at all possible.

Amount of riders vs nsmba members in 2004

amount of riders vs nsmba members in 2012

I bet there was a better ratio in 2002.

The fact of the matter is that skinnies (TTF's) are strongly frowned upon by the district, therefore maintenance or rebuilding does not generally happen. If you were to show up to a trail day and declare that you want to build some skinnies, you would not be allowed to do so.

It is also quite simple to remove skinnies from a trail whether they were built on legal or illegal trails; just fire up the chainsaw and slice through the wood. Examples of this type of decommissioning would be: Cypress Chainsaw Massacre, Whatchamacallit, Groovula, etc.

Since skinnies are not being rebuilt as numerously as in the past, they are slowly disappearing; since there are less of them to ride, people lose their "skinny skills" or don't develop them at all, so even though they can rip down Bobsled in 2min, they suck at riding skinnies and don't find them fun.

Bobsled-like trails (bench-cut, flat) are good choices for modern trail building because they are less subject to water erosion, are "safer", and make beginners feel like pros even though they have very little skill. Skinnies and eroded "no flow" fall-line trails take skill, patience, and dedication to master, they are also not as "safe."

I wasn't trying to criticize people who like the challenge of riding technical trails, my goal was to point out that these people exist.

Sorry was trying to figure a way to put I hate the sea wall crew and agree with you. I failed

Random Hero has a point. Back in the day, the trails were way harder. Granted, we were riding shit like this…

Bottomless 2 inches of front travel. Cutting edge v-brakes. Sweet 71 degree head angle. Everything was sketch as hell and at any moment you'd catapult over the front bars.

Boogie would still be terrifying on that rig.

I popped my mtb cherry on boogie on this exact bike with 100mm stem and all and fuck was it fun, now today it seems like boogie is lackluster:

Maybe that is the issue, we need to regulate bikes for being too easy to ride! No moar disc brakes!

That's cool RH. I'm not mad… it's the internet, for all you know I might be sea wall rider.

To Carrot Top, I'd add that there's also the business side: you can sell more bikes when more people are riding, and more people are riding when there are entry-level trails which are easy to ride.

That's cool RH. I'm not mad… it's the internet, for all you know I might be sea wall rider.

To Carrot Top, I'd add that there's also the business side: you can sell more bikes when more people are riding, and more people are riding when the trails are easy to ride.

Yes there is also the business side. It also ties in with the strength in numbers argument; more riders = more likely trails will remain. The trails are even more likely to remain if they are not technically challenging and pose little risk for serious injury.

DO NOT! bad-mouth one of the best builders on the shore who has devoted countless hours to building Boundary. And who also has refused in the past to take supplies [HTML_REMOVED] funding for the trail. Not to mention all the good baking brought to trail days. The Boundary is still a trail where one can test one's skills. The PS/Boundary run was always awesome back in the day. Also, do not compare Walk in the Clouds, GMG, [HTML_REMOVED] Circus (or even Air Supply) to trails like PS, Starfish, Digger's, Crippler [HTML_REMOVED] Ladies. I think most would agree that the number of people who would ride the former trails is extremely small, whereas the latter trails have always/will always get a fair amount of traffic.

Hear hear … this is something we can agree on.

Kn.

Some well thought out posts in the last page or two. Nice to see that we can still have a civil discussion on here for the most part.

You can't stop a sport from evolving but you sure can bitch about it like woman. Take it with a grain of salt but we are heading into the berm busting shralping GAY time of mountain biking. You know, when a sport get's so popular that people stop giving a fuck about trails and just destroy everything. Don't worry, after all the fan boy tld onezee wearing posers leave the shore will return, maybe not on the north shore but I know a lot of technically badass trails that make the best of today's north shore look like stanley park trails.

I don't think this will necessarily be too far off the mark in say 10 years. I like flow as much as the next rider, but at the extreme, a steady and unwavering diet of Bobsled-type trails would get pretty boring. I personally don't get much out of that style of riding. And yes, I know almost all of the current work is not making Bobsled-type trails and also that apparently I am an outlier for having this preference.

This will be immediately be countered by the usual suspects with "you dumbass there are more gnarly trails on the shore than you can imagine". Which is currently true. But, the majority of these gnarly trails are not legal and are not being actively maintained. It may be far fetched, but if only the new-school trails are protected and worked on, I can see a time when eventually the majority of the gnarly trails are closed. Cypress is for the most part very much at risk of development and becoming a network of gravel paths. The DNV has previously expressed interest in closing many of the old school lines, or "consolidating" them, which is the same thing in reality. To think that the gnar is any way protected is pretty naive. Executioner has been sanitized and it appears that for all purposes Starfish is a no-go. The way things are going with landowners I don't see how more closures aren't coming eventually, especially when the argument can be made that so few people ride these trails, so who cares?

I think a lot of people are just concerned that the current focus is solely on new-school dirt flowy trails. This may not be the case at all, but I think that is where some of the concerns are coming from. It would be nice to have at least some of these old-school trails protected so that we can continue to have such a wide variety of trails on the shore.

….to which you will be told in short time…."put your shovel where your mouth is, brah."

I am, just not on their mountains on their program.

Slow tech work is for old guys, dont wanna go too fast now.. stirring the pot

The fact of the matter is that skinnies (TTF's) are strongly frowned upon by the district, therefore maintenance or rebuilding does not generally happen. If you were to show up to a trail day and declare that you want to build some skinnies, you would not be allowed to do so.

It is also quite simple to remove skinnies from a trail whether they were built on legal or illegal trails; just fire up the chainsaw and slice through the wood. Examples of this type of decommissioning would be: Cypress Chainsaw Massacre, Whatchamacallit, Groovula, etc.

Since skinnies are not being rebuilt as numerously as in the past, they are slowly disappearing; since there are less of them to ride, people lose their "skinny skills" or don't develop them at all, so even though they can rip down Bobsled in 2min, they suck at riding skinnies and don't find them fun.

Bobsled-like trails (bench-cut, flat) are good choices for modern trail building because they are less subject to water erosion, are "safer", and make beginners feel like pros even though they have very little skill. Skinnies and eroded "no flow" fall-line trails take skill, patience, and dedication to master, they are also not as "safe."

The funny thing is, how much physical skill is there in riding a skinny? It's just a straight line. It's all a mind game. I don't mean that to belittle them, or the people who like them (I went through a phase of trying to conquer them but I just don't feel the need any more). Sure, anyone can ride around a berm and feel like a pro, but it takes a shit load of physical skill to nail a berm like Brian Lopes can. I don't really see why people are shitting on differing styles. They are just different.

Sunday - weather looks good. I got a whole free day to do what I want which is a miracle. i'll be out digging n maintaining….come by n say hi y'all..Maybe i'll even bring out the bike and go for a ride if someone's interested. Pretty sure the snow's all gone.

The funny thing is, how much physical skill is there in riding a skinny? It's just a straight line. It's all a mind game. I don't mean that to belittle them, or the people who like them (I went through a phase of trying to conquer them but I just don't feel the need any more). Sure, anyone can ride around a berm and feel like a pro, but it takes a shit load of physical skill to nail a berm like Brian Lopes can. I don't really see why people are shitting on differing styles. They are just different.

It also takes a lot of physical skill to ride skinnies like Dangerous Dan, or Ryan Leech… If you can't corner properly, you will just be slower. If you can't ride skinnies properly, you will fall off of them, damage your bike, and sometimes yourself. Anyone who can ride a bike can ride Bobsled, but not everyone can ride Boundary.

We are all individuals. We all share the joy of riding.
We all have individual taste. It would be great if we could have a diversity of trails to please every one.

Bob sled type berm trails.
Rock n root gnar trails
Wooden stunt trails
Jump trails like Platnum
Sick steep trails
One type is not better than the others. All types of trails should exist.