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Old-school trails & NSMBA Strategic Plan

Jan. 20, 2021, 7 p.m.
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct. 25, 2009

I don't believe there were any liability issues around Pink Starfish at all. The trail was in the middle of being cleaned up when it was decommissioned. I inquired at the time and was told it was entirely due to a threat to native species (frogs). 

I'd hate to lose old school gnar, to me Bookwus and Grannies are perfect as they are but I realise it's not for everyone although Kirkford and Boblsed aren't for everyone either. I certainly avoid them and if they represented the whole network I wouldn't ride Fromme at all.  Don't forget Lower Executioner flattening too, that was half gutted the last time I rode it. 

I always wondered where some of the Executioner features went, I stopped riding it for a few years and when I went back it seemed different. Guess that's been explained.

Jan. 20, 2021, 7:50 p.m.
Posts: 5998
Joined: April 10, 2005

The loss of Pink Starfish was really sad. Closed for so long, then there was hope it was making a comeback (with work being done on it), only for it to be decommissioned. I rode the new work & was impressed. It seemed like quality building & looked like a sustainable trail to me.

Jan. 21, 2021, 7:39 a.m.
Posts: 130
Joined: March 1, 2017

Frogs may have been very loosely involved but I highly doubt that Pink Starfish was some sort of frog highway. It was 'environmentally unsustainable'. As the trail was around 20 years old when it was finally closed, it'd be interesting to know what damage it did to the nearby environment and how was it different to the other trails in the area in that respect.

Jan. 21, 2021, 8:43 a.m.
Posts: 1611
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Or cutting out a bunch of trees to build a parking lot.

Jan. 21, 2021, 11:06 a.m.
Posts: 1036
Joined: May 3, 2003

Posted by: bingobus
Don't forget Lower Executioner flattening too, that was half gutted the last time I rode it. 

I always wondered where some of the Executioner features went, I stopped riding it for a few years and when I went back it seemed different. Guess that's been explained.

I can answer that one. I was the permit holder for Executioner when the re-route on Lower Executioner took place. The big bridge crossing at the top of Lower Ex was in need of replacing and it would have been a huge expense given the standards it would have to be built to (helicopter materials in). The DNV consulted with me and we agreed there wasn't value in it as after crossing the bridge the trail went fall line, then crossed back over the creek. I flagged a route staying on the east side of the creek and initially had intentions of building it "old school", however that didn't pan out for a number of reasons. I admit the re-route doesn't fit with the flavour of the rest of the trail but it does add some length and you still get all the fun gnar on the lower 2/3.

As for stunts disappearing on Executioner, those were the remnants of Bitches Brew and were already past their time. They got pulled out when Executioner & Bitches Brew were amalgamated in 2011.

Upper Digger is one of my favourite trails on Fromme. Cleaning it at speed is a rush I don't get from many other trails around. Bookwus, Grannies, Crippler, Boundary, Upper Digger, these trails all need some sort of historical status that won't allow them to be altered.

Jan. 21, 2021, 11:25 a.m.
Posts: 10
Joined: March 28, 2017

Is Lower Executioner the part below Dreamweaver or the part below where Ramble On starts?

Jan. 21, 2021, 11:29 a.m.
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct. 25, 2009

Really good to know the bottom of Lower Executioner will remain the same and the bridges thing makes sense, I do miss em though. Curiously it wasn't a big stunt I remember on Executioner, it was just a section passing between two tight trees.

My mistake about the PS frogs, getting mixed up with something else. Cam said " I believe the Alpine Red study came to the conclusion that the alignment of the trail was too close to riparian zones - or something like that."


 Last edited by: bingobus on Jan. 21, 2021, 11:31 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Jan. 21, 2021, 11:46 a.m.
Posts: 29
Joined: April 27, 2018

Hi Guys,

Great to know about the changes to lower executioner. I was recently riding lower executioner and was politely informed by a hiker that it wasn't a biking trail. I think the uphill sign at the bottom may be causing confusion?

So at a higher level...the strategic planning for NSMBA should include...a overarching North Shore trail plan, independent assessment of trail ranking, what else??

Jan. 22, 2021, 9:07 a.m.
Posts: 112
Joined: June 27, 2005

I am doing walk throughs with the DNV ranger tomorrow - I will let him know about the sign but where exactly is the uphill sign you are referring to?

Jan. 22, 2021, 12:50 p.m.
Posts: 391
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Posted by: icullis

I've been thinking about upper crippler, and while I love the trail (and the other old school trails). It seems like a stranded asset, there are blacks above and a blue below? Do we fight for that small segment of trail to stay the same or a proper trail plan that looks at expanding the trail network (versus the current zero sum game).

Can you clarify this "stranded asset" comment? I am not sure I understand the concern. Upper Crippler is a fork from Grannies, then there's the section below the Baden Powell, and then the lower section which is seeing some new features being added. The connection seems straightforward.

Jan. 22, 2021, 4:42 p.m.
Posts: 29
Joined: April 27, 2018

Meant to say upper digger....not upper crippler, which I agree flows perfectly into lower crippler, and is an awesome trail.

Upper digger is short double black with blacks above and a blue below. Which doesn’t mean that I don’t like upper digger.

Jan. 22, 2021, 4:45 p.m.
Posts: 29
Joined: April 27, 2018

The uphill sign is at the bottom of lower executioner and from memory says executioner climb...

Jan. 22, 2021, 5:26 p.m.
Posts: 1611
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: icullis

The uphill sign is at the bottom of lower executioner and from memory says executioner climb...

That’s just part of the Fromme climbing route I think. There is definitely no uphill sign at the very bottom of Ex. There is a sign that indicates the BP west of the bottom of Ex is hiking only tho - maybe that’s what you mean?

Jan. 23, 2021, 8:57 a.m.
Posts: 391
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: icullis

The uphill sign is at the bottom of lower executioner and from memory says executioner climb...

That’s just part of the Fromme climbing route I think. There is definitely no uphill sign at the very bottom of Ex. There is a sign that indicates the BP west of the bottom of Ex is hiking only tho - maybe that’s what you mean?

There is a lot of confusion at the intersection of Executioner/Baden Powell/Climb Trail/St George's bench. The climb trail shares the BP for a stretch. In fact, it's the only downhill stretch on the climb trail. Riders that may not be familiar with the BP assume they are still on a bike-only trail and can be moving quite fast....I've walked my dog through this section a few times and had some riders tell me to get out of the way (I politely point out the situation). I wouldn't be surprised if the reverse is also true (minus the speed).

Jan. 23, 2021, 12:05 p.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: bmv88

Is Lower Executioner the part below Dreamweaver or the part below where Ramble On starts?

I would say below Dreamweaver .

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