NSMBA Strategic Plan

Posted by: DanL

The Dempsey Connector is an infuriating situation for the entire user community. There’s not only zero way out for riders short of Skull or the ‘other’ routes but there’s zero way out for hikers who are shown a green/beginner hike at the trailhead with no warning that it ends abruptly and to turn around.

Out of all the plans and ideas, I wish that there was a good solution to this for everyone who wants to connect up the dots on this mountain  

According to the DNV, the Dempsey connector to Coleman idea which has so much merit and makes such an obvious, connection, is never going to happen. That entire section is zoned for 6 parcels of land to be sold at some point in the future and is not under park’s jurisdiction.

The original road plan was to connect Coleman through up to Braemar but I think it got stymied by huge sections of granite and small creeks - there’s a set of stairs at the end of Coleman that go nowhere but mirror the pedestrian access from Kilmer to Dempsey. Last year there were DNV surveyors doing site work with theodolites etc and confirmed to me that it’s usually about 5 years from that to ground breaking.

Just continuing the Dempsey connector along the 350m topo line to the yellow gate at the top of Mtn Highway would go a long way to close the loop. Create a flat track from Braemar Dempsey and the bottom of Skull to the main gate.

Posted by: craw

Posted by: DanL

The Dempsey Connector is an infuriating situation for the entire user community. There’s not only zero way out for riders short of Skull or the ‘other’ routes but there’s zero way out for hikers who are shown a green/beginner hike at the trailhead with no warning that it ends abruptly and to turn around.

Out of all the plans and ideas, I wish that there was a good solution to this for everyone who wants to connect up the dots on this mountain  

According to the DNV, the Dempsey connector to Coleman idea which has so much merit and makes such an obvious, connection, is never going to happen. That entire section is zoned for 6 parcels of land to be sold at some point in the future and is not under park’s jurisdiction.

The original road plan was to connect Coleman through up to Braemar but I think it got stymied by huge sections of granite and small creeks - there’s a set of stairs at the end of Coleman that go nowhere but mirror the pedestrian access from Kilmer to Dempsey. Last year there were DNV surveyors doing site work with theodolites etc and confirmed to me that it’s usually about 5 years from that to ground breaking.

Just continuing the Dempsey connector along the 350m topo line to the yellow gate at the top of Mtn Highway would go a long way to close the loop. Create a flat track from Braemar Dempsey and the bottom of Skull to the main gate.

Absolutely. Hook up with the bottom of Lower Ladies where it meets the 350 line.

Interesting ideas... I love the connectors, and uphill trails. Is there any possibility of the ideas actually being implemented? What does the NSMBA team think of the ideas (will they lobby for them?)?

Do you think that the DNV Natural Areas Trails Strategy (https://www.dnv.org/parks-trails-recreation/natural-areas-trails-strategy) will result in anything positive? Most of the municipal planning stuff seems more like politicians kicking the can, than actually trying to get anything done...

years and years before anything gets done.  Things set out will probably get changed with new mayor/council/NIMBY's, etc so who knows really.

Posted by: mammal

Posted by: craw

Posted by: DanL

The Dempsey Connector is an infuriating situation for the entire user community. There’s not only zero way out for riders short of Skull or the ‘other’ routes but there’s zero way out for hikers who are shown a green/beginner hike at the trailhead with no warning that it ends abruptly and to turn around.

Out of all the plans and ideas, I wish that there was a good solution to this for everyone who wants to connect up the dots on this mountain  

According to the DNV, the Dempsey connector to Coleman idea which has so much merit and makes such an obvious, connection, is never going to happen. That entire section is zoned for 6 parcels of land to be sold at some point in the future and is not under park’s jurisdiction.

The original road plan was to connect Coleman through up to Braemar but I think it got stymied by huge sections of granite and small creeks - there’s a set of stairs at the end of Coleman that go nowhere but mirror the pedestrian access from Kilmer to Dempsey. Last year there were DNV surveyors doing site work with theodolites etc and confirmed to me that it’s usually about 5 years from that to ground breaking.

Just continuing the Dempsey connector along the 350m topo line to the yellow gate at the top of Mtn Highway would go a long way to close the loop. Create a flat track from Braemar Dempsey and the bottom of Skull to the main gate.

Absolutely. Hook up with the bottom of Lower Ladies where it meets the 350 line.

There have been several surveys done for this very idea but there were  cost and engineering concerns from DNV about crossing the creek and the substantial piece of granite that cuts right across that pathway which might mean having to create a meandering climb up and down.  
But it's also inconsistent when you consider the work done on the bridges for the Dempsey Connector to bring it up to some kind of spec for a trail that essentially goes nowhere and the cost of them - $40K or so when I did an FoI on it.
If you want it, email and call as that creates the political will. It's something that I tried to get people moving with a few years back and nothing came of it, so who knows, maybe this year? 
But again, the combination of those parcel being for sale above Coleman and the usual nimbyism from the residents who back onto the forest would have to be fought  - it's a numbers game.

Whenever possible, I have emailed and called... The hard part is knowing what the actual barrier is! So, some questions I have are; What is the barrier (money, political will, staff will?)? What is NSMBA lobbying for (how can we align and support)?

Barriers I had thrown up through my emails to DNV parks were cost, hours, surveying (geo and environment) time - these all change if the number of people asking after this as, I am guessing here,  the cost to use ratio changes. 
NSMBA can lobby and has done, but it all rests in the hands of the DNV and parks. I had asked Mathew Bond to look into this as well but a lot has slipped by the wayside in the last 3 years as priorities, rightly in some respects, changed for the district. It gets really murky but I would expect that someone on the board of directors at the NSMBA has a clear map for how this is done

https://nsmba.ca/fill-out-our-2022-annual-survey-win-some-prizes/

Give feedback where its actually analyzed.

Ethnicity is important to how the trails are managed?

yes.

https://nsmba.ca/trailsforall/

Posted by: switch

Ethnicity is important to how the trails are managed?

I'd say it's not important directly in how the trails are managed in the dirt sense but it is important when it comes to things like trail etiquette and being inclusive. Plus it helps to know the breakdown of your membership so you're not treating them as a monolith.

Posted by: [email protected]

That's why I mentioned taking Dempsey Connector and hopping over to Mountain View Park where you can climb up Griffen and King of the Shore. All intermediate trails. Dempsey Connector just needs an nice official exit at the eastern end to replace the unsanctioned creekbed-like trail ending at the haunted house for those who don't want to drop down Lower Skull.

Don't reply "not everyone has the fitness or the desire to ride Dempsey Connector to Mountain View Park and climb up Griffen and King of the Shore". Like I also wrote, lots of quick lap options from Braemer if someone doesn't want to ride all the way up.

This route would take you right past the parking lot wouldn't it, so why not just park at the parking lot?  I mean, wasn't the parking lot built (at least in part) so mountain bikers wouldn't park on neighbourhood streets?

Posted by: Ride.DMC

Posted by: [email protected]

[…] Dempsey Connector to Mountain View Park and climb up Griffen and King of the Shore".

This route would take you right past the parking lot wouldn't it, so why not just park at the parking lot? I mean, wasn't the parking lot built (at least in part) so mountain bikers wouldn't park on neighbourhood streets?

Two reasons:

1. Everyone else already parks at the parking lot so it’s often full with a line of idling cars waiting for a spot.
2. I like to end my ride with a descent, not with a climb.

"Dempsey Connector just needs an nice official exit at the eastern end to replace the unsanctioned creekbed-like trail ending at the haunted house for those who don't want to drop down Lower Skull."

The problem being is that the land into that area is now part of sale parcels which are out of the hands of parks so to create anything meaningful, it would have to go above and around those parcels. If you look on the DNV Geoweb on the OCP and Zoning layers, you'll see what I'm talking about.

I'm concerned that funneling hikers through Dempsey and then having nowhere but Lower Skull to go down if they don't take Quarry will cause a lot of incidents.

The only thing DNV has done recently in that area is to do the fire/brush remediation and send in a  bunch of Kubotas to dig out flood channels/ sections for the houses that back onto that area