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North Shore Trail Riding Etiquette and Behavior in a Global Pandemic

May 30, 2020, 1:45 p.m.
Posts: 8
Joined: March 28, 2017

Might be stating the obvious but seems to me that the increase in unsanctioned loamers is a direct result of the lack of new trails on Fromme and Seymour. As a comparison Squamish had 5 new sanctioned trails last year. Did the Shore have any?

May 30, 2020, 5:21 p.m.
Posts: 4877
Joined: Nov. 25, 2002

Posted by: Silk

Posted by: D_C_

Reopening in coordination with BC Parks/LSCR lots makes sense. With the other lots remaining closed, the Fromme lot would likely be flooded if it reopened first.

Fromme has already been flooded.

The amount of Loam lines that that have appeared over the last few months is hair raising. Heat maps are not helping this at all.

Old hiking lines have become a mess.

crazy, huh? i can't believe the number of unsustainable fall line skidders (dumping onto main trails) & braids that have erupted as of late. is people's lust for loam really that insatiable? out of towners that just don't give a shit? it's eye opening, for sure.

May 30, 2020, 5:50 p.m.
Posts: 955
Joined: June 26, 2012

Posted by: xy9ine

Posted by: Silk

Posted by: D_C_

Reopening in coordination with BC Parks/LSCR lots makes sense. With the other lots remaining closed, the Fromme lot would likely be flooded if it reopened first.

Fromme has already been flooded.

The amount of Loam lines that that have appeared over the last few months is hair raising. Heat maps are not helping this at all.

Old hiking lines have become a mess.

crazy, huh? i can't believe the number of unsustainable fall line skidders (dumping onto main trails) & braids that have erupted as of late. is people's lust for loam really that insatiable? out of towners that just don't give a shit? it's eye opening, for sure.

I think it’s in-towners going crazy who have held off from satiating their sense of adventure in Squamish, Pemby, etc. One can only ride Expresso so many times...

May 30, 2020, 7:13 p.m.
Posts: 712
Joined: March 15, 2013

The excess of free time that people have is probably contributing as well.

May 31, 2020, 11:58 a.m.
Posts: 108
Joined: March 1, 2017

Posted by: bmv88

Might be stating the obvious but seems to me that the increase in unsanctioned loamers is a direct result of the lack of new trails on Fromme and Seymour. As a comparison Squamish had 5 new sanctioned trails last year. Did the Shore have any?

Squamish has hundreds of trails and plenty of new ones, yet the unsanctioned building going on here at the moment is bordering on the ridiculous. So it has nothing to do with lack of new trails. It'd be awesome if the effort was put into fixing up the old trails rather 'building' yet another loamer that will only last a few months before it's wrecked.

May 31, 2020, 12:13 p.m.
Posts: 8
Joined: March 28, 2017

Fair enough....would still be great to get some new trails built or old trails rebuilt on the Shore but there just seems to be too much red tape or lack of money.

May 31, 2020, 3:05 p.m.
Posts: 1029
Joined: Feb. 5, 2011

I think refreshing older trails would probably be the best of both worlds. On Fromme for example, I would take a guess that like 90% of riding takes place on only a handful of trails - that's what it looks like according to Strava stats at least. It's a shame for a bunch of existing trails to be barely ridden, and once trails are refreshed that definitely seems to bring a lot of riders to them - look at Lower Digger. Definitely not suggesting that we turn a bunch of older tech trails into flow trails, but a bit of updating/modernizing certain sections could be beneficial IMO.

May 31, 2020, 4:27 p.m.
Posts: 327
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: trumpstinyhands

Posted by: bmv88

Might be stating the obvious but seems to me that the increase in unsanctioned loamers is a direct result of the lack of new trails on Fromme and Seymour. As a comparison Squamish had 5 new sanctioned trails last year. Did the Shore have any?

Squamish has hundreds of trails and plenty of new ones, yet the unsanctioned building going on here at the moment is bordering on the ridiculous. So it has nothing to do with lack of new trails. It'd be awesome if the effort was put into fixing up the old trails rather 'building' yet another loamer that will only last a few months before it's wrecked.

Whistler too. I know of numerous off the map trails around here some of which will become deep rutted trenches but also a number that are well built bench cut with hard climbing sections and steep drops too. There are some that are without question double black or perhaps even more difficult “pro lines” if you will. There are nine I could show people just in my end of town . I find them mostly through the hikes I do with my dogs when I’m tired of the Karen’s and Kevin’s of the world whining about me riding on trails where bikes are allowed. Or my dogs are off leash way way out there. 

Is there a desire or need for more trails? Do these secret trails exist because the older legit trails are being dumbed down? Does the sport in places like North Van need to grow? Does the mountain bike community really want the extra mileage that ebike riders can place on the trail system? 

To me the answer is more legit trails. If there are enough trails with enough variety and no place to put “loamers” then maybe the rogue builders will mostly stop.

May 31, 2020, 8:19 p.m.
Posts: 26
Joined: Aug. 6, 2004

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: Silk

Posted by: D_C_

Reopening in coordination with BC Parks/LSCR lots makes sense. With the other lots remaining closed, the Fromme lot would likely be flooded if it reopened first.

Fromme has already been flooded.

The amount of Loam lines that that have appeared over the last few months is hair raising. Heat maps are not helping this at all.

Old hiking lines have become a mess.

Ya chatting with Digger the other day, the DNV is pissed about all the new loamers that have appeared. The exits and entrances are so obvious, no one bothers to walk in and walk out of them anymore. Think it may affect future building projects. The DNV can just say no so easily.

This is why more than ever the permitted builder really need to show how we do things. From what I am hearing in the tumble weeds on the dark side of trail building on all 3 mountains are not great. 

Talk to the land owners, the management involved. Get your permits and build. 

The builders of Fromme pinch ourselves each day knowing we are able to build legal world class trails just outside of a metropolitan area.

May 31, 2020, 9:22 p.m.
Posts: 477
Joined: April 11, 2011

Posted by: Silk

The builders of Fromme pinch ourselves each day knowing we are able to build legal world class trails just outside of a metropolitan area.

We pinch ourselves knowing that we get to ride it.  Appreciate you!

June 1, 2020, 8:23 a.m.
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb. 13, 2016

To be fair, it's not just loamer mountain bike trails that are taking a beating.  Numerous 'loamer' or semi-secret hiking lines in the Grouse Mountain area that use to see almost no traffic are getting completely blown out as well.  As 'thaaad' said, there has been an extraordinary expansion of peoples free time in the last few months: a combination of people off work, schools closed and then none of the normal out of school / work activities, sports and social outlets available.  All that has been left to do is spend time outside or inside on screens.

It did not help that BC parks, DNV and Metro closed so many trails and access points and kept them closed even after the evidence became pretty strong that the the risk of transmission outside is extremely low (with a few exceptions obviously).  This only concentrated people in the remaining places that were somewhat easy to access.

The final thing that I believe lead to this was that people were doing their best to find places to ride (and hike) that were less busy in order to avoid close contact with others.  Loamers were an ideal way to get away from the crowds on some of the more established trails and trailheads.  This was exactly what we were all being asked to do when this all started so I don't think it was necessarily irresponsible behavior at all.

The big question is whether this explosion in mountain biking and hiking will die down as things gradually return to "normal" or if a lot of people will now have made it a new part of their daily routines.  If that is the case, I hope our local governments are ready to quickly respond to this increased demand.  However, based on past experience with DNV, Metro and BC Parks, I am not at all optimistic in their ability to respond quickly to anything positive in relation to mountain biking.  As an outsider looking in, they all appear to have an antagonistic, passive aggressive response to anything mountain bike related, seemingly not realizing how main stream it has become or the significant impact it has on the local economy.

June 1, 2020, 9:19 a.m.
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb. 13, 2016

Just saw on Twitter that the Fromme Parking lot is supposed to open today after all.

June 1, 2020, 1:50 p.m.
Posts: 299
Joined: April 15, 2017

Can confirm it's open now - what's the story with Hyannis/Old Buck ?

June 1, 2020, 2:41 p.m.
Posts: 4877
Joined: Nov. 25, 2002

Posted by: trumpstinyhands

Posted by: bmv88

Might be stating the obvious but seems to me that the increase in unsanctioned loamers is a direct result of the lack of new trails on Fromme and Seymour. As a comparison Squamish had 5 new sanctioned trails last year. Did the Shore have any?

Squamish has hundreds of trails and plenty of new ones, yet the unsanctioned building going on here at the moment is bordering on the ridiculous. So it has nothing to do with lack of new trails. It'd be awesome if the effort was put into fixing up the old trails rather 'building' yet another loamer that will only last a few months before it's wrecked.

was a bit surprised to see remy scraping moss down a fresh one hit wonder slab line in his latest vid (which was in clear proximity to an existing trail). is it just a free for all in that zone as long as you're not cutting live trees?

June 1, 2020, 2:42 p.m.
Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 16, 2013

Posted by: DanL

Can confirm it's open now - what's the story with Hyannis/Old Buck ?

Seymour and Cypress park were officially slated to open today... So I'd assume they are open. Not sure about the lot at the bottom of Old Buck, but I'd assume that's part of Seymour.

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