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New Kilmer Creek Bridge on the Baden Powell on Fromme - Why no bicyle ramp like the old one?!?

Sept. 14, 2019, 1:03 p.m.
Posts: 156
Joined: Feb. 13, 2016

Before I go off completely half-cocked, can anyone enlighten me why the new bridge over Kilmer Creek on the Baden Powell (on Fromme between Expresso and Pipeline) has no bike ramp on the east end like the old one did? Instead there is now only a steep set of stairs that are going to be very difficult (but possibly not impossible) to bike up.

Seriously though, this is a very strange decision. (I could use other terminology to describe this but I'm trying to be polite, at least until I have all the facts). The bridge looks as if it is done but maybe it is not yet done?? Can anyone who has the inside line on this enlighten me on why this happened or if future work is still planned before I go making a fool of myself by writing a bunch of emails and posting on social media.


 Last edited by: Xorrox on Sept. 14, 2019, 1:04 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 15, 2019, 7:51 a.m.
Posts: 857
Joined: June 26, 2012

I don’t know the answer, but it’s probably worth asking the nsmba as a starting point. They for sure know what’s going on. They’ll either tell you it’s in the works, or that it requires a politely-worded email from you to the land manager to help make it happen (like the teeter totter situation).


 Last edited by: D_C_ on Sept. 16, 2019, 1:40 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Sept. 15, 2019, 11:19 a.m.
Posts: 745
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

I keep expecting that night time modifications will magically appear every time I round the corner. So far, no luck!

Agree, its ridiculous. It seems to me that its been built in a way that is not conducive to solving the problem also - I expect that NSMBA considered a 2 step process, but those steps could have been built way more shallow than they have been to allow an easy ramp up....I see a separate bridge or rebuild of the steps required. Want the bridge fixed fast? GAP JUMP over the creek, or a log ride.

I suspect NSMBA has a plan.


 Last edited by: Ddean on Sept. 15, 2019, 11:20 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 15, 2019, 2:10 p.m.
Posts: 315
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Based on the comments I've seen (& likely DNV have seen) on this comment board,  the Baden Powell is  a pain in the rear for many riders. I suspect that DNV is trying to get riders to take Lower Expresso/Coleman Connector to get back to the parking area. Just an opinion.

Sept. 15, 2019, 7:10 p.m.
Posts: 67
Joined: April 26, 2004

maybe its to slow down ebikes?

but really, it does seem like with the big guard rails that there isn't a near future plan for a bike ramp

and doesn't the Coleman Connector finish on the east end by going down the steps of someone's house (or big dorp to falt)


 Last edited by: taprider on Sept. 16, 2019, 12:47 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 16, 2019, 12:50 a.m.
Posts: 49
Joined: Aug. 11, 2015

A suggested climb trail showed up in the DNVs Classification Plan back in 2007 to go from the bottom of Espresso to second switchback - Espresso to Bobsled basically. Seems the idea is to take all bike traffic off Baden which makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't miss the Stairs of Despair that's for sure. Dunno how feasible that is, would run close to the Van Tan. Guess No Quarter was built instead during that time. Would make parking lot loops better for people although the lot is already maxed out. I find it amazing that that biking is now so popular that people now line up to park there.


 Last edited by: TheWasp on Sept. 16, 2019, 12:50 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 16, 2019, 10:55 a.m.
Posts: 1250
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

There is marker flags that run along the contour from near the bottom of Skull going East. Looks like some work was started a couple years ago but stopped.  This being an alternate mtb trail back to the Fromme lot.

Just ask Digger, he will let you know what's up, he's everywhere.....


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on Sept. 16, 2019, 10:58 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 16, 2019, 11:13 a.m.
Posts: 745
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

I like the idea of a small climbing trail that would open up the trails below BP and get you to Bobsled/Floppy, and while I know that the BP is really a repurposed hiking trail, I really like ripping through there on a bike and Ive never had any issues with those on foot - the current situation works pretty well IMO.

But if given the choice, Id hit the trails below BP and climb up and hit Bobsled or Floppy to get back to the lot instead of BP and up the road.

Sept. 16, 2019, 1:06 p.m.
Posts: 25
Joined: June 9, 2017

Long story short; challenges with the creek bank, setbacks, etc. 

We're trying to work on a solution on the east bank that would be acceptable to DNV. 

Y'know what would help with that? Some political will. @D_C_ has the correct path forward here.

Sept. 16, 2019, 2:45 p.m.
Posts: 156
Joined: Feb. 13, 2016

Posted by: cooperquinn

Long story short; challenges with the creek bank, setbacks, etc. 

We're trying to work on a solution on the east bank that would be acceptable to DNV. 

Y'know what would help with that? Some political will. @D_C_ has the correct path forward here.

Hi Cooper,

I was hoping you would stop by and save me writing an email to NSMBA first ;) 

I don't want to go with the full nuclear option on my first email (i.e. Mayor and Council) so other than the general 'infoweb@dnv.org' are there any other people's email addresses at DNV that you suggest I contact directly regarding this issue?

Thanks for your time, I know you put a ton of work in on these sort of issues and I can imagine how soul sucking it must sometimes be.

Sept. 16, 2019, 5:08 p.m.
Posts: 315
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Posted by: taprider

maybe its to slow down ebikes?

but really, it does seem like with the big guard rails that there isn't a near future plan for a bike ramp

and doesn't the Coleman Connector finish on the east end by going down the steps of someone's house (or big dorp to falt)

That's where it ends up currently, but I took a walk/hike behind the residences and there is flagging that connects up to the end of Lower Ladies.

Sept. 16, 2019, 8:29 p.m.
Posts: 1203
Joined: Dec. 3, 2003

Posted by: TheWasp

I wouldn't miss the Stairs of Despair that's for sure.

There's no despair left in those stairs!!!

Sept. 17, 2019, 12:03 p.m.
Posts: 49
Joined: Aug. 11, 2015

Posted by: AlanB

Posted by: TheWasp

I wouldn't miss the Stairs of Despair that's for sure.

There's no despair left in those stairs!!!

Ha! To be honest I've avoided that piece of trail for a long time. Has it been smoothed out?

To be clear we're talking about the same thing .... last part of BP before it joins Mountain Highway at the water fountain?


 Last edited by: TheWasp on Sept. 17, 2019, 12:03 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 17, 2019, 12:09 p.m.
Posts: 49
Joined: Aug. 11, 2015

Posted by: Xorrox

....... are there any other people's email addresses at DNV that you suggest I contact directly regarding this issue?

I recall seeing a slide at an AGM/townhall with a list of contacts at the different land owners. Can't find it on the site. Would be good to have, mouse hovering over send button to back you up Cooper.

Sept. 17, 2019, 12:19 p.m.
Posts: 156
Joined: Feb. 13, 2016

Posted by: Xorrox

Posted by: cooperquinn

Long story short; challenges with the creek bank, setbacks, etc. 

We're trying to work on a solution on the east bank that would be acceptable to DNV. 

Y'know what would help with that? Some political will. @D_C_ has the correct path forward here.

Hi Cooper,

I was hoping you would stop by and save me writing an email to NSMBA first ;) 

I don't want to go with the full nuclear option on my first email (i.e. Mayor and Council) so other than the general 'infoweb@dnv.org' are there any other people's email addresses at DNV that you suggest I contact directly regarding this issue?

Thanks for your time, I know you put a ton of work in on these sort of issues and I can imagine how soul sucking it must sometimes be.

I sent an email to the infoweb@dnv.org so we will see if / what I hear back from them.

When I first got back into riding, this section of the BP back to the parking lot use to spank me every time.  I even destroyed a helmet on one of the rocks. However now I actually look forward to it - except perhaps the short, steep climb just after the Big Stupid which I think I need an e-bike for at my advanced age ;)

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