New posts

Multi use vs bikes only

Nov. 25, 2018, 11:05 a.m.
Posts: 129
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Ran into (almost literally) a pack of soccer moms with purse dogs that were hiking up John Deere today. 

My response is to get stopped as best I can, say good morning, and try to resume my ride once they're clear. 

Is this right response? 

I have no issue sharing trails with hikers in 99% of cases, but in the case of fast, bermed, jumpy trails like John deer I feel that

A. It's not terribly safe. It's easy to hit 30km/hr+ on those trails. 

B. I do admit it gets under my skin, in this particular case. If you want to hike up GSM, salamander, sticks and stones, BP/bridal (obviously), heck even severed since there only a few fast parts. But John deer? Really? Come on. 

So what is the protocol and what is the actual designation? Is John deer actually multiuse bi-directional from a land management perspective and the downhill only designation is just a guideline via trailforks?

If it's actually a downhill only trail does it need for more signage to that effect?

Nov. 25, 2018, 11:14 a.m.
Posts: 850
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Trail forks is pretty much the defacto map resource as the NSMBA website points there. John Deer is also signed DH only. Unfortunately some, no many people, are ignorant and often willfully so or just don't give a shit about the rules and how their actions affect others. Slowing down and saying hello is great as it spreads good will, but I would have also taken the time  to let them know that this is a DH only trail and that it is for their safety so they should pick another trail to use. If they gave any blowback I'd point out that it's a trail built by mtb'ers for mtb'ers and is desingated as DH only and just leave it at that.

Nov. 25, 2018, 12:29 p.m.
Posts: 129
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Thanks, my instinct was to do exactly that, in terms of giving them the heads up that it's marked downhill only and not the safest option for hiking up. Next time I will for sure.

Nov. 25, 2018, 12:49 p.m.
Posts: 850
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

my experience is that most people will actually appreciate the info, some won't really care and a few will get belligerent

Nov. 25, 2018, 1:47 p.m.
Posts: 61
Joined: March 1, 2017

I sort of agree with Syncro, but when it comes to who is allowed on a trail, Trailforks is pretty irrelevant. firstly no dog walker, soccer mum etc is going to be looking at it and secondly it's not an official resource. The land is CMHC managed and they kicked MTBers off the mountain not long ago (thankfully sorted for now), so good luck in court if you hit a walker while pinning it down John Deere, even if TF labels it 'Downhill Primary'. I see TF also labels it as E-bike not being allowed on it which is also a bit of a farce. A heavily shuttled mountain and a portly German isn't allowed to freewheel down John Deere? ;) And going back to TF's' Downhill Primary', wasn't Severed Dick a hiking trail?  Ah land access...... :)

Nov. 25, 2018, 2:14 p.m.
Posts: 850
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

It’s not just trail forks, JD is signed at the bottom with an NSMBA placard stating it’s a DH trail. I can’t recall if it says  mtb only or mtb primary, but even if it’s just primary then hikers going up the trail need to be aware and get off the trail when mtb’ers approach. 

So regarding court, if the trail is signed at the bottom where a hiker comes up as DH only and mtb primary and you hit a hiker on the way down I would say that a judge is going to rule in your favour and that hiker bears responsibility for the collision.

Nov. 25, 2018, 2:20 p.m.
Posts: 850
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

This could be a good opportunity for the NSMBA to review their signage/map policy and maybe update their webpage with an official list of sanctioned trails and their allowable use, ie mtb primary/only, etc.

Nov. 25, 2018, 3:36 p.m.
Posts: 574
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

Yeah I think the appropriate action is to politely discuss unsafe situations and that was probably one of them.

I’m sure they didn’t know. I sure wouldn’t hike up JD with my doggo


 Last edited by: Ddean on Nov. 25, 2018, 3:37 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Nov. 25, 2018, 6:34 p.m.
Posts: 306
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Polite interaction is always the best start. You'd think common sense would indicate what would be a MTB primary trail, but not everyone is aware. If I were hiking up JD with a purse pooch, I think I would appreciate the heads-up and quite frankly would prefer to stay off the trail...people hike on trails to get way from traffic, not to encounter it. The issue with Seymour, is that it's a labyrinth of trails and unless you know where you are going, it's easy to get onto something mtb primary.

Nov. 25, 2018, 6:44 p.m.
Posts: 1133
Joined: May 23, 2006

That soccer moms w/poodles are a danger doesn't surprize me. You should see the way they drive their SUVs!

Nov. 25, 2018, 10:05 p.m.
Posts: 850
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: mudrunner

The issue with Seymour, is that it's a labyrinth of trails and unless you know where you are going, it's easy to get onto something mtb primary.

lol - don’t get me started on that one and tha calls for many years to put together a plan for a cohesive trail network instead of just having trails sprout up ad hoc all over the place.

Nov. 26, 2018, 7:32 a.m.
Posts: 1011
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: Kenny

Ran into (almost literally) a pack of soccer moms with purse dogs that were hiking up John Deere today. 

My response is to get stopped as best I can, say good morning, and try to resume my ride once they're clear. 

Is this right response? 

I have no issue sharing trails with hikers in 99% of cases, but in the case of fast, bermed, jumpy trails like John deer I feel that

A. It's not terribly safe. It's easy to hit 30km/hr+ on those trails. 

B. I do admit it gets under my skin, in this particular case. If you want to hike up GSM, salamander, sticks and stones, BP/bridal (obviously), heck even severed since there only a few fast parts. But John deer? Really? Come on. 

So what is the protocol and what is the actual designation? Is John deer actually multiuse bi-directional from a land management perspective and the downhill only designation is just a guideline via trailforks?

If it's actually a downhill only trail does it need for more signage to that effect?

Being nice and not condescending is for sure the best approach.  It's been ages since I have witnessed any static between bikes and foot traffic. Having a collision with a hiker/walker and then it going to court is bad for everyone, hope that doesn't happen.

Nov. 26, 2018, 12:41 p.m.
Posts: 25
Joined: Aug. 11, 2015

Met a couple in their early 20s near the bottom and I super politely told them they would be in danger and maybe consider a different trail (they were still close to BP). Also that it's mostly a mountain bike trail. I didn't get into sanctions/primary/DH etc. But then the girl got belligerent! It caught me off guard, aren't belligerents meant to be old people like me? Anyway I said its up to them and they headed off on their way. It was a busy day so no doubt she got more and more angry as she met more and more bikers on their way up. Nice way to spend your afternoon.

Nov. 26, 2018, 6:28 p.m.
Posts: 129
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Thanks guys, my gut feel was to say something. I kinda suspect it's 50/50 if the people are going to be entitled dicks like wasp mentioned but I would appreciate the heads up so golden rule applies. If hikers are dicks well I'm on a bike, just ride away and leave them to become roadkill. Lol

Nov. 27, 2018, 8:54 a.m.
Posts: 338
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

It would be a huge bummer to smash into someone at full John Deere speed. The rider would probably come away mostly unscathed but the hiker would get wrecked. Mountain bikers are used to crashing and getting banged up. A clueless hiker probably not so it'll be a huge deal. Not only do you have to deal with the impulse to yell at them but now you have to be supportive and helpful. Maybe a couple of additional signposts just in case - it'll be easier to make our case for MTB DH primary on some trails (and in hiker-biker interactions on the trail) if the signage is unavoidable. Maybe there needs to be a second sign a bit up from the bottom that says "Seriously do not do this. Bikes come down here at 30km/h+ and will turn you or your dog into red mist. Please use another trail." I think most hikers just haven't thought through just how brutal a head-on collision would be.

Forum jump: