Moab BLM Bans E-Bikes

And while I have not seen one in a catalogue. It would not surprise me if someone has figured out how to make a off road version. And it is not far fetched to see these things on trails that are less technical. Have heard reports of these thiungs being taken into trail systems out here. And when confronted they all have said…"It is a bicycle".

Been around since at least 2010

Just is my personal opinion, and not that of Rocky Mountain.

I will admit to changing my opinion after some reflection on the subject rather than saying the first thing that came to mind.

The off-road e-bike user will be the same as the pavement e-bike user: inexperienced? Yes, but with the same rights as other users of the road and trail. More impactfull on trails? Yes, but no more than an increased ridership of non-e-bikers would be.

Increased ridership is a good thing in my opinion. More money in the cycling industry, which is never a bad thing. This goes for shop owners, shop staff, local associations, etc. I think this will predominately be new money, not just a transfer from mechanical to electrical bikes.

Another thought: the entry cost of e-bikes will restrict growth to a manageable level for some time until we hit the intersection of consumer uptake, volume economics, and technology development.

glad to see i'm not the only one on this crazy train

i think that there is a segment of the population that would benefit from these types of bikes and before we go all aggro and throw the baby out with the bathwater maybe we should take a look at some options that would include people instead of outright excluding them.

i also think that whether these things are "legal" or not on the trails, there are going to be people who ride them wherever they want anyways.

i see one segment as riders who want to make the getting to the top part as easy as possible so they can shred their fav trails a few times in one ride or be able to bang off a quick lap. it would be potentially easy to do a ladies only ride in under a half hour - how many of you wouldn't like that?

the other segment i see is those who are not hard core riders but would like the opportunity to get out and ride trails in the forest - anywhere from stanley park to the north shore. those two types of riders are definitely in different segments.

with the two segments one also has to consider cost. a mid-level am bike runs in the neighbourhood of say $3500, so maybe add another $1500 to that for the e-bike option. that means mid to higher end emtb's are going to be priced at the upper end of many rider's budget. i think you'll see a small number of riders able and willing the spend the cash on the mid to upper level emtb. the emtb's that are on the lower end of the price scale are probably not going to be good enough to take the abuse an avg rider will throw at it and so your typical rider will probably not be interested as while the ride up will be easier, the bike will not handle the ride down very well. those lower priced emtb's though may be perfect for those who are just after the experience of riding simle trails without a lot of effort.

What you need to take into account is the amount of extra 'lapping' an ebiker can do, as well as the extra impact a throttle creates. Faster than shuttling and more impact up, [HTML_REMOVED] down, especially if there is brapping involved.

Yellow gates to Expresso = 8 minutes on an ebike. So what is the ratio of impact if it takes an average rider 30 minutes to get to Expresso? Almost 4:1. Then add in dh brap factor…6:1, then add in uphill shralping which will ruin the tread in steep sections…10:1?

Not looking at the negatives but don't think you'll find many builders will agree the impact to be the same.

Very well reasoned Mark.

D

i think the biggest issue is going to be the uphill / downhill conflict . . . there are going to be a whole lot of folks who find that going up the trail is as much fun as going down .

Here's my take:
A e-biker can be categorized as an inexperienced user with limited physical ability. This is the primary market for e-bikes and thus will define the majority of sales. .

I have to call total and utter baloney on this. I am sure there will be a few people with physical limits that reach for the ebike. However, I'd bet my ass that there will be a ten to one ratio of people that just don't want to pedal.
I really wish this idea of "ebikes for disabled people" would stop being used as a trojan horse for this product. To be clear, I am totally in support of enabling people with disabilities to use the trails. However, to suggest that it what will drive the e-bike market, or that the manufacturers expect to sell primarily to the disabled demographic is an utter farce. They will sell to everyone and anyone they can, and as sellers of things do, they will spout all manner of fantasy to make their product sound like a gift to humanity.

Check the intro lines for each of the ebikes below. Funny, none of them mention making trails accessible or helping people with limited abilities. They all just spout out the usual rip-it-up more-for-me mentality that spawns the creation of crap they are determined to sell us, regardless of any impact or consequence. Primary target appears to be the same as the current target of non-motorized rider. ANYONE they can sell too.

Felt Duale "A full compliment of Shimano components round-out the drivetrain, making the DUALe a bike that not only shuttles you to the top, but lets you rip the downhills as well."

Grace MXII "Likes it dirty.
The black MXII Trail, fascinating thanks to its unprecedented powers and possibilities"

Lapierre Overvolt-"The new Lapierre Overvolt range is an explosive mixture of energy and vitality, keen to conquer new horizons. "

maintenance and conflict issues are going to be huge…. please no more coverage on this.

What you need to take into account is the amount of extra 'lapping' an ebiker can do, as well as the extra impact a throttle creates. Faster than shuttling and more impact up, [HTML_REMOVED] down, especially if there is brapping involved.

I think extra lapping will be for the regular mtb users on e-bikes which will consist of a smal portion of e-bike users. It takes more than leg power to complete a lap and I think most e-bikers will be content to pound out their lap and leave. E-bikes don't have throttles but the pedal assist can spin out on climbs. I believe this is no more impactful than a non-motorized user trying to make a climb as well.

I think it's fair to say that the ebiker users will represent a tiny portion of riders, negating the impact everyone is claiming they have. If I'm wrong and this trend explodes, it will be with new users that are bringing in new revenue.

Like I said: more users = more revenue, for all involved. More money for the tap programs and the legacy fund. More bodies on the cycling side is never a bad thing.

[QUOTE=cerealkilla';2848057]I have to call total and utter baloney on this. I am sure there will be a few people with physical limits that reach for the ebike. However, I'd bet my ass that there will be a ten to one ratio of people that just don't want to pedal.
I really wish this idea of "ebikes for disabled people" would stop being used as a trojan horse for this product.

When did I mention disabled? I said inexperienced: users that are not fit enough to ride difficult trails or ride for a long time. This will be your typical e-bike user. Given these qualities, it's hard to confirm that they will swarm the mountain, bursting with destructive energy, and damage trails beyond repair.

The naysayers are vilifying a small demographic before it has made any impact at all. Reminds me of the growing pains that mtbers faced a few short years ago.

Imagine if the Trials user group kicked us out of Britannia, citing trail damage (true) and dangerous encounters (haven't heard of any but anything is possible, right?). I would definitely have something to say about that.

FYI, I'm not advocating we all go out and buy e-bikes. I'm saying we should all get to enjoy the trails.

I think extra lapping will be for the regular mtb users on e-bikes which will consist of a smal portion of e-bike users. It takes more than leg power to complete a lap and I think most e-bikers will be content to pound out their lap and leave.

This. IMO, it’s hard to project the increase in traffic due to pedal assist. If you’re speeding up a full lap by a factor of 3, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll do 3 times as many laps. If your usual is 2 laps on Fromme, I don’t think the new normal will be 6 laps. Doing 6 laps is no picnic on the body.

This is not a troll attempt. Honest question. I wonder which is greater:

1. Potential increase in trail maintenance due to pedal assist.
2. Increase in trail maintenance due to creating accessible trails like Expresso.

uphill shralping which will ruin the tread in steep sections

In my mind, this seems unarguable. So many areas not built for climbing would become climbable.

My concern is when the distinction between e-bike and e-dirtbike becomes more blurry. As battery technology improves, e-bikes will only get more powerful, faster etc.

On the thxgiving weekend while riding on the SSC I caught up with a couple on e-DH bikes. The lady was having a tough time climbing up the the rooty trails on her ebike (equipped with a Boxxer fork) and was pushing up the trail. The fellow was doing hot laps behind her, climbing up, descending, climbing back up. He was roosting the corners going up hill. I was surprised how fast he was able to climb, likely as fast as the average rider would descend this section. There was noticeable impact to the tread just from his couple laps, going uphill…. aside from trail impacts, the potential for user conflicts is huge if climbers are now traveling up as fast as descenders are traveling down the trail.

As someone who has spent years getting our local trails designated non-motorised, I would be disappointed to see e-bikes not classified as motorized vehicles. e-motorised is motorised.

My concern is when the distinction between e-bike and e-dirtbike becomes more blurry. As battery technology improves, e-bikes will only get more powerful, faster etc.

This…

For now the brappage is minimal on these things but in a few years these will look like dh bikes and perform like a decent moto.

If it has a motor it is motorized. end of story.

In my mind, this seems unarguable. So many areas not built for climbing would become climbable.

If you mean having descending trails subjected to two way traffic, then I agree: not acceptable.

If you mean that e-bikes make impossible technical climbs posssible by the average user, then I disagree. E-bikes don't give you super powers and better handling skills.

If you mean having descending trails subjected to two way traffic, then I agree: not acceptable.

If you mean that e-bikes make impossible technical climbs posssible by the average user, then I disagree. E-bikes don't give you super powers and better handling skills.

the way things sit now though, with the exception of one trail, all trails on the shore are considered two-way and mult-use (bikers and hikers at least).

If you mean having descending trails subjected to two way traffic, then I agree: not acceptable.

If you mean that e-bikes make impossible technical climbs posssible by the average user, then I disagree. E-bikes don't give you super powers and better handling skills.

Both. For the latter, you're assuming that only average users will employ pedal assist. You might end up being right, but it's an assumption nonetheless. I also don't think you need hammer skills to climb the bulk of Expresso. Just some extra legs.