LSCR

Posted by: LoamtoHome

I meant Pangor... not Pingu. Pingu is pretty fun and can get some flow, Pangor, not so much. A Trail stuck in 2004 with janky lines and could do a redo in a lot of sections as you are still going down creekbeds.  and yes, it's my opinion and with the people I ride with.  Boogie is leagues above in terms of water management and flow.

You are welcome to your opinion, but we both can’t change the fact that Boogie is on a ridge line above a creek, and Pangor wet section is a low point directly below it.   Take a look at the topo map.  Water follows the shortest path of gravity.

And it'll stay janky AF with lots of wood as long as I’m around, to keep variation between trails and a similar experience to the original builders intent.

Posted by: Exwhistlerskibum

Whatever Metro and the LSCR decide to do with the light, dark, and front side trails, I hope they realize that today's bike community will really only accept that the present trail network of both authorized and unsanctioned trails will form the baseline trail network for the future. Any effort to pull a Hangman or Sack Shifter move on pretty much anything up there won't stick with riders these days. The multiple (formerly) loam lines around CBC are evidence of what modern bikes and brakes can do. Close a trail and a new one opens 10 feet away after 3 people choose a new line.

If they're going to put paid muni workers in the forest, they would be wise to focus their efforts on improving the places they want us to ride rather than trying to close off areas they don't want riders to go. That just won't work anymore. It would be wise for the NSMBA to tell them as much, in a non-confrontational way, of course.

You don’t think Metro staff read a LSCR thread?   

You don’t think that’s their vision with huge paid CBC and Neds rebuilds?

And to that end @LSCR - “closing” the established Camp Brick walking path around the flat monoculture of weed trees only resulted in multiple random dog walking, hike and bike lines through the   ‘reclamation’ in progress.  

A heavy planting of cedars and native fruit bearing bushes with an established path to keep traffic on track could have resulted in a nice new forest.  Too late for that…

Posted by: Exwhistlerskibum

wise to focus their efforts on improving the places they want us to ride rather than trying to close off areas they don't want riders to go

This has been pointed out many many times to all of the local land managers.

Posted by: heckler

Posted by: LoamtoHome

I meant Pangor... not Pingu. Pingu is pretty fun and can get some flow, Pangor, not so much. A Trail stuck in 2004 with janky lines and could do a redo in a lot of sections as you are still going down creekbeds.  and yes, it's my opinion and with the people I ride with.  Boogie is leagues above in terms of water management and flow.

You are welcome to your opinion, but we both can’t change the fact that Boogie is on a ridge line above a creek, and Pangor wet section is a low point directly below it.   Take a look at the topo map.  Water follows the shortest path of gravity.

And it'll stay janky AF with lots of wood as long as I’m around, to keep variation between trails and a similar experience to the original builders intent.

Thank you!

Posted by: Stuminator

If they could rebuild Ned's like they did CBC, that would be a good thing. Right now it's a rock-filled creek bed with no features.

You're not looking hard enough.  I agree there are no CONSTRUCTED features (except the drop lower down)  but the terrain itself is the feature.  On my hardtail I find the trail a blast with all the drops and rock work.  Some trails would die to have this sort of rock work on it that in most cases is natural.

Posted by: Stuminator

I am just saying why ride on rocks when you can ride loam? For me, I could put up with riding rocks as long as some funky features came along.

Rocks don't erode and last a lifetime.  Loam eventually wears out.  And given the amount of usage Seymour gets the more rock the better.   I love loam too but for those trails I have to go to less travelled areas.

Posted by: icullis

I agree, there are lots of opinions. 

There's a lot of riders (increasing every year), of different abilities, with different desires, needs, wants, likes, etc... and unfortunately a bunch of land managers who haven't proactively planned out the network, or increased the number of trails.

The importance of this comment cannot be understated. The trail network is not being managed as a regional resource with cooperation between all invested parties.

I do hope the land managers read the thread. The parks are a regional resource that has been underdeveloped and the limited trails overused. 

Also, hopefully the land managers are able to cooperate, and understand that both bikers and land managers have relationship to build...and currently a significant lack of trust. On one hand, no new trails, trails smoothed out (upper dales), no maintenance allowed (CBC and Neds), and trails closed (aftertaste for one)...on the other hand rogue building (and lots of it!)...

^^^

It seems like the result of people who do not understand and/or have no real desire to understand mtb culture and the needs of it's participants. Maybe the managers are stuck 25 years in the past and think mountain bikers are still a small, fringe group of yahoos. The money spent to revitalize CBC is nice to see, but imho it that money would have been put to better use hiring a Trails Manager that would collaborate with other managers and leverage the membership of the NSMBA to help with the trail work. There seems to be little thought given to the fact that trail maintenance is an ongoing venture and not something you throw money at once every 5 or 10 years. I think we all recognize that governments work under limited budgets, so it's critically important that they are able maximize the effectiveness of the money they do spend. This isn't anything against Dream Wizards or the work they did, but an effective plan has to include ongoing maintenance and cohesion amongst all the managers.

Simple things like the lack of an integrated on trail map program speak to the lack of connection between all the managing parties.

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: heckler

And it'll stay janky AF with lots of wood as long as I’m around, to keep variation between trails and a similar experience to the original builders intent.

Thank you!

You're welcome!    It's easy.  Just don't dig gold until it really, really needs it.  (and the newly refreshed berm at the top really needed it!)

I do work hard to get the water to stop flowing.  The current 'stream' section has had major ditches and grade reversals dug at least three times now, but 2020 blew it out.  It's time for a reroute, already flagged (and technically permitted since 2019) but time to do so is lacking, life also gets in the way.

Didn't the NSMBA used to have a Trails Manager, or something similar? I still remember the shit show on here....!