Lower Fromme

Really you can't force the masses to think a certian way, its sad really that people don't think that their stupid behaviour can jeopardize the place that the love to ride.

Pay as you ride, eh? I'm going to have to disagree with this point. One of the main attractions to MTB for me was the fact that it didn't cost me anything to ride my bike throught the trees and I would like to keep it that way. But before I get the old "you ride a $3000 bike suck it up" response, which is inevitable, let's consider a thing or two.

Some of the councillors last night suggested that bike companies and shops ect. put in some cash. Everyone seems to think that's a great idea. I don't think it's a great idea. Look at all the fancy soccer and football fields around town. You know, the ones with the huge lights, washrooms, parking lots, scoreboards and whatnot. I can garauntee that the DNV/CNV wasn't calling up Adidas, Fila, Nike and whomever asking them for money to build these fields. It's obvious, otherwise their logos would be all over the place. If the DNV actually supported MTB, they could show a little monentary support like they do with "traditional" sports.

And what would this money that we would pay to ride these trails go towards? Maintenence? New trails? Hell, we build and maintain our own trails. Parking? That would mean cutting down trees to the left of the gravel road around the water towers, nasty chemicals being leeched into that frog pond and as Sharon said more congestion in that area, similar to Lynn Headwaters.

Basically I feel that as a rather large user group we are kind of getting the short end of the stick. I mean when was the last time you saw a soccer player mowing the field or cleaning up after a game? Never, the DNV pays people to do that.. So why can't the MTB communtity get the same kind of support and have a few staff to do things like maintenence, cleanup and what not. I mean, why not? If Crist's number of 60,000 riders is correct, there has to be enough revenue generated between money spent at business' and a user fee to support things like portapotties or gasp even something with running water and maybe even a changing facilty, similar to the one at the soccer field on the Grand Boulevard and 13th.

Having said all of that, I will gladly pay a yearly user fee just to ride around on Fromme. But before I start paying to ride the trails, I would expect the DNV to throw down some cash, even if it is only 1/5 of what they spend on things like soccer fields, lighting, lawnmowering and what not.

I think one of the biggest challenges facing the MTB communtity comes down to liability. Let's face it, if you were in Mayor Bell's position, would you want to say that you're liable for a trail like Jerry Rig or Circus? I sure as hell wouldn't.

you've got a wicked argument derek… I never thought about the soccer fields examlpe you gave in there and I hope somebody brings this funding issue to the councillors. I totally agree with you 100%

Thanks, another argument would be that if you look at all of the trees cut down, pollution from all of the machines to make/maintain a soccer field and the fact that the fertilizers leech into the ground water, then compare it to your average mountain bike trail that winds through the woods that is built up and "armoured" ie. Upper Oilcan and compare the environmental impact between the two…well you see where I am going. But then you run the risk of being called a hippie;) and pray to God no one uses the Dustbin or Severed Dick as an example against your argument :lol:

I know the pay to ride thing isn't perfect by any means, it was just an idea that may or may not have merit, like so many others, and is worth bashing around.

Another idea, this one not so much a solution as a good will gesture - how about a day spent cleaning up the neighbourhood where we all park. Show the residents we care about the area too, we're not just users.

The comparison with the stadium works a bit, bt how about comparing it to the neighbourhood park near you. Your municipality paid for it, and it's unlikely that the local bunch of guys living in delta are gonna drive out to pitt meadows to use your baseball diamond.

Now on the other hand - you seen a lot of downhill trails in say Richmond, Ladner etc.

It's like buying a boat - great, now where you going to sail/drive it - you have to pay to put it in the water @ most marinas.

Originally posted by Sharon
We should sue Cam for copyright infringement. We had the name first!

We could pay for the suit using the back pay you owe us for your banner on the front page :lol:

And I didn't realize you had a copyright Sharon ;)

Anyway it seems to me, despite a little confusion, last night's meeting turnout is pretty good evidence that we are doing much more good than harm to the nsmbA.

Originally posted by seand
dan would be choked though if he lost another trail (groovula)

i dont think groovula is what dan needs to worry about. =/

groovula is a rad trail. all those like 4 or 5 footer drops and stuff. i'd be pissed if it dissapeared. i can see where your coming from though. all in all i see more hikers and joggers on groovula than i do bikers hahaha partly i think because of its location, it doesnt feed in to mountain highway parking very easily BUT…. hikers do have st georges and all that over on the far left and hiking up that all i got was smiling people and stuff. everyone was super pleasent. mind you i was goin UP not down.

Originally posted by Heatmizer
it's unlikely that the local bunch of guys living in delta are gonna drive out to pitt meadows to use your baseball diamond.B]

thats true, i live in tsawwassen and drive out to fromme alot because its good exercise hiking up, the riding is great, and i dont need to dick around with hitchhiking or rounding up people for a shuttle on a weekday.

but still parks are built with adequate parking/facilities. fromme has NONE. not even for the locals. if you live on lonsdale and want to ride fromme you still have to park on st marys or coleman. if i lived in richmond (say south arm) and wanted to go to gary point in steveston theres parking. and if i was in steveston and wanted to go to south arm theres parking.

Originally posted by [email protected]
Anyway it seems to me, despite a little confusion, last night's meeting turnout is pretty good evidence that we are doing much more good than harm to the nsmbA.

I know this site is a webzine, but you and everyone associated with NSMB is passionate about mountain biking. I've seen nothing but awesome support for the NSMBA by NSMB.

As to the thread's topic. I understand the original post, and I both agree and disagree. There's a few issues with regards to Fromme, but I believe they can resolved in simple and inexpensive terms.

As a preface, I'd like to say that it is sad that an organization like the NSMBA, which really only wants to deal with issues inside the park, is being fingered for issues outside the park. Anyways…

First, Mountain View Park. If you keep bikes (or hikes) off of an area, there will be regrowth in a relatively short period of time. Put some signs up that clearly show the way out of, or around, the park. Signs don't cost much, and they provide information that people in the area require.

Second, put a big sign at the fire road gate. The sign should contain a few basic points with regards to things such as "no littering", "stay on the trails", "turn back if you didn't park in a proper area", etc. Not too many points as people might then ignore it as too much to read. Then put another couple more signs up along the road, specifically at entrance points to areas leading into Griffin. Signs don't cost much, and they provide information that people in the area require.

Third, instead of the DNV paying for someone to drive around and handing out parking tickets, could they not have some one hand out tickets to rude/lude individuals? Slap someone who's peeing or swearing or nude with a nice, hefty fine. Same with someone playing in the frog pond in MVP, be they dog walkers, bikers, or kids from the area. Maybe then they'll start behaving properly in the area, and perhaps they'll have a change in attitude and behave properly in other areas as well.

You can educate people passively - put information on the NSMBA web site, or on NSMB. You can hand out flyers. But that only covers people who visit NSMB/NSMBA, or people who happen to be passing by when flyers are being handed out. A big sign at the yellow gate would be in EVERYONE's face. Signs in Mountain View Park would help people to egress quickly and easily (I'm sure almost everyone wants to get out of that maze as quickly as possible). People who are behaving poorly should be made to hurt where it counts - in the pocket book.

Anyway, some signs definitely wouldn't hurt, and I'm 99% positive they'd help.

Originally posted by diggs
and pray to God no one uses the Dustbin or Severed Dick as an example against your argument :lol:

You been down the Dick lately diggs? It is not the rut fest it used to be. There have been lots of improvements/maintenance upgrades to the trail lately.

Edit

Severed Dick could easily be used as an example of what maintenance does for a trail and how bikers and hikers can share the mountain.

Cam, I'm told the proper term is 'trademark' .

I actually get a kick out of the confusion.

Switch, there is a sign at the turn around… haven't you seen it?

You can try to educate, but if people don't want to be educated, what can you do?

Originally posted by Sharon
**

You can try to educate, but if people don't want to be educated, what can you do? **

You then revert back to the shovel upside the head method of education.

Originally posted by Sharon
Our idea would be to spread the riders out along the length of BP. Create smaller access areas at St. Mary's, Bottom of Digger, Dempsey/Braemar intersection, off Dempsey, upper and lower water towers. Have a lower multi-use trail system connecting the lower parking areas. This way you will spread the users out. Having one parking area at the top of Fromme will create more congestion in the area with cars driving in and back out. The number of sites that would have to be created would be huge. Ever been to Lynn Canyon on a sunny day?

I agree with this idea in addition to a parking area at the top of Fromme. If the gravel road could be widened to accomodate parking on the side as well as some parking by the water towers, it could handle a good number of vehicles.
As for giving up some trails… perhaps only those trails on the east side of the access road leading down into Mountain View Park. I have never come across a hiker while on Boundary - why give up these trails (Crippler, etc) when they don't seem to be areas of contention??
Sure glad to see a good turnout at the district meeting… hope for us yet.

Originally posted by Sharon
Switch, there is a sign at the turn around… haven't you seen it?

Probably didn't have my spectacles on. :D

I haven't been there since they put in the turn around. Glad to hear that they put in a sign.