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Look at this forum

Dec. 22, 2016, 7:54 p.m.
Posts: 33148
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

If something is wrong, it's not because of Cam - it's Norman’s fault.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

Dec. 22, 2016, 7:55 p.m.
Posts: 221
Joined: March 27, 2014

pretty much everyone that replied here has posted helpful intelligent things at some point for the purpose of enriching discussion here

this is the point of my piping up in the last day with "Forum Changes" and even if the proposed changes are not shared… fine, the fact is now we are having real impactful conversation with one another. Thx Julie for your post.

Talk less, Say More.

Dec. 22, 2016, 7:57 p.m.
Posts: 221
Joined: March 27, 2014

The forum is really a gift from NSMB

We need to remember this point… it is important, we are participants in Cam and Pete's shared space. As a result, and legally too… we are guests in this space and they make the rules.

Talk less, Say More.

Dec. 22, 2016, 8:11 p.m.
Posts: 1478
Joined: Aug. 6, 2009

I (and at least one or two others here) used to spend a lot of time on the TelemarkTips forum. Moderation was light, but effective when needed. The exception being their version of NBR, which was a dysfunctional free for all. When anyone complained, the overwhelming response from the majority was that whoever puts in the time and effort to set up and run a forum, and pays the bills, gets to set the rules.

Eventually, moderation became less and less (it was eventually learned that the owner had terminal cancer, so had other, far more important, things on his mind), and the forums got exceedingly toxic. Eventually, the forum crashed and ceased to exist, but it was clear that the absence of moderation had led to its effective death long before the crash.

A lot of what I see here in recent months is similar to what happened on TTips as it degenerated into a place that many long time users no longer wanted to participate in.

Dec. 22, 2016, 8:16 p.m.
Posts: 221
Joined: March 27, 2014

Who was arguing for no action? You are putting words in my mouth Gord. That's not like you. I was simply commenting on the nature of accountability and internet hostility.

New things are already well under way. A new forum solution with improved functionality and user focussed moderation will be part of that solution.

Hi Cam, let me explain my point of view: in my other thread "Forum Changes" you offered up the reply I quoted you on. My opinion… and it is only an opinion… is that you threw me a bone… there was nothing on it… maybe you were sidetracked with family and just threw it out there but, "what I read" was a nothing… so I responded to what I interpreted.

Is how I interpreted "putting words in your mouth?" In your point of view, it was.

I will acknowledge that I was being provocative… yes… as a tactic, to draw something, (what I do not know) out…

And now we hear there are changes afoot and Scrooge is gone.

Fantastic… I wish you could have indicated that initially in the "Forum Changes" thread that predated this one as it would have alleviated my not knowing the facts of what was afoot. So in this regard I apologize by putting you on the spot.

We all know business has two variables… money in and money out. As one forum participant noted… you make no money in on the clicks. We get that. I hope the money out on the changes afoot are not too much.

We all appreciate the opportunity to share our points of view in your NSMB shared space that you and Pete provide us.

It is special and meaningful to many, if not all, of us…

And it is that reason why there is such a great discussion with shared points of view on this exact topic.

Recall… I initiated this conversation in the thread "Forum Changes" with that this is my first sentence: This is my opinion… Please discuss…

So, it is all really a point of view, as each of us have. So, at the end of the day… we are here since you let us and as I have said before, some things have to be top down. And I respect that. Which is why I suggested that maybe a members only forum would be better suited at the NSMBA where they have the Societies Act providing a back stop on participation etiquette. I intend to approach the NSMBA on this in the New Year and to see if they would be willing to embark on a strategy for this within the next 5 years.

This way, the anon aspect of fun can be maintained here… yet, as a community, we defer to you and the moderators to keep it a safe place.

The false news perpetrated by individuals being initially a wolf in sheeps clothing harms the personal reputations of those related to the vitriol and gas lighting of the post. We do not need that. Irrespective of personal viewpoints of subject matter, no one needs that here.

We should be accountable to us, real names or anon, and those crossing the community line of acceptableness of remark need to have a response.

I think there is some work to do on a new rule of Forum Participation… and really, you could nuke all the accounts and start fresh on the same architecture with an acceptance of a new Terms and Conditions for participation.

Dunno… maybe getting ahead of myself on that one as I am not the decision maker… but anyways, thanks for your time on this matter and thanks for the NSMB community channel you provide. It is important to all of us here.

Cheers

Talk less, Say More.

Dec. 22, 2016, 8:25 p.m.
Posts: 8594
Joined: Nov. 15, 2002

Hi Cam, let me explain my point of view: in my other thread "Forum Changes" you offered up the reply I quoted you on. My opinion… and it is only an opinion… is that you threw me a bone… there was nothing on it… maybe you were sidetracked with family and just threw it out there but, "what I read" was a nothing… so I responded to what I interpreted.

Is how I interpreted "putting words in your mouth?" In your point of view, it was.

I will acknowledge that I was being provocative… yes… as a tactic, to draw something, (what I do not know) out…

And now we hear there are changes afoot and Scrooge is gone.

Fantastic… I wish you could have indicated that initially in the "Forum Changes" thread that predated this one as it would have alleviated my not knowing the facts of what was afoot. So in this regard I apologize by putting you on the spot.

We all know business has two variables… money in and money out. As one forum participant noted… you make no money in on the clicks. We get that. I hope the money out on the changes afoot are not too much.

We all appreciate the opportunity to share our points of view in your NSMB shared space that you and Pete provide us.

It is special and meaningful to many, if not all, of us…

And it is that reason why there is such a great discussion with shared points of view on this exact topic.

Recall… I initiated this conversation in the thread "Forum Changes" with that this is my first sentence: This is my opinion… Please discuss…

So, it is all really a point of view, as each of us have. So, at the end of the day… we are here since you let us and as I have said before, some things have to be top down. And I respect that. Which is why I suggested that maybe a members only forum would be better suited at the NSMBA where they have the Societies Act providing a back stop on participation etiquette. I intend to approach the NSMBA on this in the New Year and to see if they would be willing to embark on a strategy for this within the next 5 years.

This way, the anon aspect of fun can be maintained here… yet, as a community, we defer to you and the moderators to keeo it a safe place.

The false news perpetrated by individuals being initially sheep in wolf's clothing harms the personal reputations of those related to the vitriol and gas lighting of the post. We do not need that. Irrespective of personal viewpoints of subject matter, no one needs that here.

We should be accountable to us, real names or anon, and those crossing the community line of acceptableness of remark need to have a response.

I think there is some work to do on the a new rule of Forum Participation… and really, you could nuke all the accounts and start fresh on the same architecture with an acceptance of a new Terms and Conditions for participation.

Dunno… maybe getting ahead of myself on that one as I am not the decision maker… but anyways, thanks for your time on this matter and thanks for the NSMB community channel you provide. It is important to all of us here.

Cheers

Thanks Gord. To be clear, I don't disagree with your strategy at all and I think the absence of anonymity would be helpful and that other mechanisms would be useful as well. As I mentioned above I would prefer a situation where most of the moderation was a community approach. I'm not sure that that looks like yet but modern software will give us many options that are not available to us currently.

Dec. 22, 2016, 8:35 p.m.
Posts: 15439
Joined: May 29, 2004

Thanks Gord. To be clear, I don't disagree with your strategy at all and I think the absence of anonymity would be helpful and that other mechanisms would be useful as well. As I mentioned above I would prefer a situation where most of the moderation was a community approach. I'm not sure that that looks like yet but modern software will give us many options that are not available to us currently.

Im not sure who is moderating your forum these days but im sure there are a number of active members who you could extend the responsibility to, as long as their vision of this forum is in line with yours.

…not me though…..i'd ban half the population and get drunk on the power.

Dec. 22, 2016, 10:13 p.m.
Posts: 3597
Joined: Sept. 27, 2004

If something is wrong, it's not because of Cam - it's Norman’s fault.

No it's the "secret group's" fault

"X is for x-ray. If you've been bikin' and you haven't had an x-ray, you ain't goin' hard enough." - Bob Roll

Dec. 22, 2016, 10:17 p.m.
Posts: 6449
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

What type of member should I be alienating?

He accused me of comparing e-bikes to sexual assault. If you are going to make such an idiotic and demonstrably untrue suggestion you better expect a reaction. There are times when I have over-reacted and regretted it but this I don't regret this reaction at all.

And besides, he had already left.

Hey Cam, came back to say that my comment earlier this morning wasn't well explained and very well deserved the string of f-bombs and shit talk it spurred (although to be fair I was pretty surprised it came from such a mellow guy, guess it struck a chord).

To be clear, I don't think you compared the two directly although when I re-read my comment it sure sounded that way.

My gripe with comparing the reaction of sexual assault to the reaction of e-bikes in that article was that it undermines the former in my opinion, and to any non-biker reading the front page of NSMB bikes are a silly recreational pastime and sexual assault is, well, serious. But that's just my opinion.

It's probably the only time I'll be accused of being overly sensitive or politically correct in my lifetime, but there it be.

Aside from that keep up the good work with the site. Its been a staple in mountain biking for me since sometime around '99 and can certainly say there's been alot more good than bad in all those years.

Dec. 22, 2016, 10:22 p.m.
Posts: 2875
Joined: Nov. 27, 1986

Merry Christmas Cam and the nsmb family.

superheros
north shore bike shop

Dec. 22, 2016, 11:24 p.m.
Posts: 8594
Joined: Nov. 15, 2002

Hey Cam, came back to say that my comment earlier this morning wasn't well explained and very well deserved the string of f-bombs and shit talk it spurred (although to be fair I was pretty surprised it came from such a mellow guy, guess it struck a chord).

To be clear, I don't think you compared the two directly although when I re-read my comment it sure sounded that way.

My gripe with comparing the reaction of sexual assault to the reaction of e-bikes in that article was that it undermines the former in my opinion, and to any non-biker reading the front page of NSMB bikes are a silly recreational pastime and sexual assault is, well, serious. But that's just my opinion.

It's probably the only time I'll be accused of being overly sensitive or politically correct in my lifetime, but there it be.

Aside from that keep up the good work with the site. Its been a staple in mountain biking for me since sometime around '99 and can certainly say there's been alot more good than bad in all those years.

Thanks for saying so. That was very big of you, especially when I wasn't very forgiving or gentle with my comments. Hopefully you'll stay around - and I'll retract my earlier comments and delete them.

Cheers and Merry Xmas!

Dec. 23, 2016, 6:26 a.m.
Posts: 12705
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Merry Xmas to all of you of the nsmb family. And really looking forward to a very highly likely trip to Vancouver next year. fingerscrossed

"You don't learn from experience. You learn from reflecting on the experience."
- Kristen Ulmer

Dec. 23, 2016, 6:49 a.m.
Posts: 48
Joined: Aug. 11, 2015

Hugs all 'round and a Merry Christmas to all!

Dec. 23, 2016, 6:49 a.m.
Posts: 8242
Joined: Dec. 23, 2003

No it's the "secret group's" fault

lol

Dec. 23, 2016, 10:35 a.m.
Posts: 3
Joined: July 21, 2008

Who was arguing for no action? You are putting words in my mouth Gord. That's not like you. I was simply commenting on the nature of accountability and internet hostility.

New things are already well under way. A new forum solution with improved functionality and user focussed moderation will be part of that solution.

When can we look for the new solution, Cam? It is greatly needed.

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