I'm new here. Are you allowed to bike on Old buck trail ABOVE Mt .Seymour Rd?

Posted by: gramm

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: switch

Posted by: LoamtoHome

Nothing is worse than a whiny hiker...

Sure there is - people who purposely break the law, and people who lie. Shows a lot about their character.

Yeah I get it, but doesn't this perspective lack a little bit... I don't know... nuance?

I sometimes drive 10-20km/hr over the posted speed limit. I am careful when conditions are poor, and would not do so in residential areas, school zones, etc where I probably drive less than the limit and try to otherwise drive attentively and defensively.

By disobeying that posted sign, am I "purposely breaking the law" and "lying"? I mean, I guess s but generally speaking I try to not be an asshole. If I get a ticket, I pay the "fast driving tax".

I see a lot of people drive like assholes or unsafely but they're obeying the posted speed limit signs, so all good I guess.

I realize it's not a perfect analogy but I think any reasonable person would have to admit there's some parallels.

Be kind. Especially to other trail users that are on a different mode of transport/slower/with kids in tow, etc.

Say hi. Slow down. Say thanks. Don't pound down soaking wet loamers.

Just be a decent person. If you choose to disobey posted signs, be extra nice. Pay a fine if you get one, don't act entitled.

I'd be curious if the original poster has a negative encounter or is just trying to play world police.

If you had a negative encounter. I'm truly sorry. There are assholes around. Unfortunately assholes ride everywhere, and nice people do as well. People should not be assholes regardless of the legitimacy of their chosen route.

If you didn't have a negative encounter and just feel litigious, I'd say the speeding thing is a good analogy. If people are speeding but otherwise not being tools, let them past and get on with your life, you may not agree with it but you'll drive yourself to an early grave just complaining about every single thing every single person does, that you feel is wrong. I'm not saying it's right, but man you gotta pick your battles these days.

Well said.  Disobey the signage, get caught and you pay a fine, simple as that, no danger to anyone and no damage to an uphill trail....that should be open to riders to get them off the road in the first place. A road where hardly anyone is obeying the law, including shuttlers, by going above the posted speed limit of 60 which is far more dangerous than a biker going uphill on a trail they are meant to be on.

As a side note, they are changing the speed limit to 50 km/hr... like that is going to change anyone's behavior. When everyone drives 70-80km/hr at the current limit, reducing the posted limit isn't going to change much. 

We tried driving 50 km/hr last weekend and it feels like a snail pace, without changing the layout of the road drivers will just keep driving above. Between roadies and MTBs in the summer there are enough cyclists that they should put up some posts for a bike lane or something during the summer and just remove it in the winter when there is more vehicle traffic.

Nobody should be riding on the trail in OPs question, that's the hiking trail that starts at Mushroom Lot. Clearly signed as no biking and there's a good chance that you'll encounter an angry hiker, especially on a weekend. 

People do ride other trails in the area, but it's best to go about that quietly and not discuss on an open internet forum. First rule of loam club...

If you are new, ask about the legalities and moralities of the Darkside, of which is all illegal and been ridden for 30+ years despite a sign at the entrance of said area CLEARLY stating no mountain biking.  

Hikers and bikers being where they shouldn't be cuts both ways....had a pair of hikers going up Lower Crippler one day at the steep downward rock roll (you know if you ride this trail) and looked at me like I was an alien.  Luckily I was able to stop before the "total commitment" zone.  I have had this on many steep trails over the years; Executioner (understandable since Dreamweaver intersects with it but still), and my favourite, Lower Skull......brings a whole new meaning to commitment. 

However, in terms of if it is "right", biking on Seymour is not a case study in moral rectitude.  Illegal loamers abound, off grid trails are more numerous than the legit ones......I get the polite asking of your question but you will find with biking it seems today rules don't apply.  Some trail workers advocate NSMBA trail days but the next day are working on said illegal loamers and off grid trails....

This is only because BC Parks is understaffed and doesn't have the resources for Park Rangers to properly patrol the area.  If they did.....or more succinctly......if someone were to get seriously hurt on the Darkside and there would be the need for SAR and an airlift I can assure you the status of the trails in that zone would be in more than just jeopardy.

Posted by: Polymath

or more succinctly......if someone were to get seriously hurt on the Darkside and there would be the need for SAR and an airlift I can assure you the status of the trails in that zone would be in more than just jeopardy.

Just like Cambodia.  

No wait, the NSMBA trail workers/advocates saved it from closure by the land manager after exactly your hypothetical scenario.

There have been serious injuries requiring airlifting on the darkside, so I'm not sure what Polymath said about that is true.

And NSMBA trail days are a great place to learn how to build, so I can see why builders of all walks of life would recommend attending.

There are legal trails, there are rogue trails, there are hiking only and biking only trails. People will generally do what they want and go where they want, for better or worse. Perhaps a higher risk of penalty will deter some folks, but not all.

IMO, just try to be a decent person in the mountains, obey the golden rule type thing. If you ride the trail in OPs post, you will disrupt hikers and it could ruin both your day and the hikers day, so don't do it. Same goes for hikers on DH trails, although if the trails are unsanctioned then there's not much you can say to deter them from being there. I can't think of a single trail on the shore that wasn't a rogue before it was sanctioned, so I'm not sure the moral high ground is as rock solid as people may think.