I got an email...

At least correct your post Leggatt as I did not say what is quoted above.

She's making NMSB.com look bad? Was her email to you posted in a public forum? Who's making whom look bad here?

I'm not sure what's happening with the North Middlesex Savings Bank (I get email from them all the time) but I'm pretty clear that NSMB.com had nothing to do with the production of that video.

I actually said "Maybe she's an opponent to mountain biking who felt this was a way to make us look bad?" I'm not saying she will be successful, nor that I agree that this makes us look bad in any way.

How does this make us look bad exactly?

You post an email from her and snipe a quote from another article that ratchets up the scenario. It looks like you're outing MTB opponents on a BB where, let's face it, in this particular case she's defenceless in this forum. Unless you sent her a reply telling her you'd post it here.

What's the rationale behind this thread? I'd like some insight into this one.

You post an email from her and snipe a quote from another article that ratchets up the scenario. It looks like you're outing MTB opponents on a BB where, let's face it, in this particular case she's defenceless in this forum. Unless you sent her a reply telling her you'd post it here.

What's the rationale behind this thread? I'd like some insight into this one.

TBH I thought it was funny that she went off the handle on me and NSMB.com, without making any effort to discover who was actually responsible for the video.

Then when I realized she was a well-known and vocal opponent of mountain biking it made me suspect her motives for 'outing us.'

I have always known that mountain biking is destructive to the biodiversity and ecology of our coastal rainforest, I now know also just what kind of people you really are.

Now she knows. Even if she doesn't know.

I guess I felt justified in posting the email considering her next course of action, based on NSMB.com having produced the video in question.

Believe me, I will be sending this one everywhere. Congratulations Mr. McCrae, you have just given mountain bikers a worse reputation in this community than they have ever had before.
Shocking!

And she spelled my name wrong.
Shocking!

Hey Cam doesn't a career in construction sound pretty damn appealing right about now? Websites are a tough racket these days.

Thanks for the reply Cam but I'm not on board with it and my input on this thread was initiated by my surprise to see it was initiated by the site editor. Topics like this are easily perceived as low hanging fruit and I know you guys are better than dragging topics like this in in your often caustic BB. Stick to the content you develop on your front page where it's usually newsworthy and well informed and where the discussions are often more constructive.

Hey Cam doesn't a career in construction sound pretty damn appealing right about now? Websites are a tough racket these days.

Shovelling horse shit has seemed appealing in comparison on some days lately!

Thanks for the reply Cam but I'm not on board with it and my input on this thread was initiated by my surprise to see it was initiated by the site editor. Topics like this are easily perceived as low hanging fruit and I know you guys are better than dragging topics like this in in your often caustic BB. Stick to the content you develop on your front page where it's usually newsworthy and well informed and where the discussions are often more constructive.

Thanks for the kind words, but considering the job I do, are you surprised I have a big mouth?

And I didn't actually anticipate the direction this discussion has gone, nor do I feel I should censor myself on this bulletin board. And I certainly wasn't motivated by stirring up shit to aid the bottom line - and I'm not clear whether you are suggesting that or not. If you were you should know that this BB doesn't actually play a role in our business plan.

That said I will consider your comments in the future.

Message deleted pending further consideration… :)

Have a look back at what I actually said Ted. Unless you'd just like to criticize me for what you think I said.

First have a look at where I ever defended the filmmakers' actions. So how can I be leaping to defense of something I never defended?

If you'd like to actually be disappointed in me (so hot right now!) you can be disappointed because I am saying that it's hypocritical to be 'outraged' by the treatment of horses running wild with bikes if you participate in an industry that abuses and mistreats billions of animals every day.

But if you'd rather not deal with the truth, and you'd prefer just to hack me for what I didn't say, then carry on.

You shared the video. That right there is where you defended/endorsed the filmmaker's actions.

Granted, I was perhaps a little aggressive in my comment, but the argument you make is argumentum ad hominem, and one consistently used by those that choose to not eat meat. Some people expressed that they found the film to be in poor taste, you called them out as hypocrites for making such comments whilst choosing to eat meat. The two are not related. Different people make different life choices towards the same end. There is nothing wrong with that.

Pretty aggressive response. Given the flack you've taken on here lately I can sympathize, but you chose to air this here for unclear reasons.

If someone chooses to eat meat, that doesn't exclude them from being able to criticize the filmmakers for this scene. This is argumentum ad hominem. Several people pointed out that this scene was done in poor taste. You chose to call them out as hypocrites for choosing to eat meat. The two are not related. One can make different choices in different aspects of life towards the same end.

And the argument that 'I am not the filmmaker, therefore I don't deserve criticism.' Is also slightly ill-founded in my opinion. You* chose to share the video, therefore you effectively endorsed it. I agree with you that inhumane is a stretch, and this person obviously had an agenda to push, but the video was stupid and unnecessary and probably only served to antagonize those with such an agenda.

*I appreciate you personally get flack for things that happen on this site that you perhaps had no say in. That's sort of unfortunate and unavoidable I guess.

Isn't it aggressive to accuse someone of doing something they didn't do? You said I was defending the filmmakers when I was not. And you have continued…

I also didn't say it excludes you from criticizing the film or filmmakers if you eat meat. I simply said it's hypocritical to do so. You are welcome to disagree with me.

I also didn't call anyone out for eating meat. I simply pointed out that the meat industry is constantly abusing animals in ways that make (IMHO!) criticizing this film appear ridiculous. You are free to disagree with me again, but please stop taking me to task for saying things I didn't say.

Saying I have given tacit approval to the film because I posted it could be a point, but I also don't feel it's my job to post only things that pass a certain moral test. Beyond that I have confidence that the Anthill crew acted in good faith, because I know them. I also know that hundreds of hours of planning and safety went into the shot and that the horses are trained to do this sort of work. Is it squeaky clean and beyond reproach? Of course not. But mountain biking isn't either.

And my personal belief is that, while I wouldn't choose to put a scene like that in a film I worked on, I didn't find it particularly offensive.

Those who find it offensive are certainly entitled to that opinion and I have no issue with that. But the righteous indignation seen here is (IMHO!) misplaced.

Feel free to disagree with that as well.

I would have ignored the email.

….and having owned horses,I know that they do in fact enjoy a little game of chase the human. Mine did.

i got a letter to the editor, the other day
i opened it and read it, it said we were suckers
blaming us for animal cruelty or whatever
picture me producing that vid - i said never!
here is a land, that never gave a damn
about the lives and treatment of animals
because they never did
i wasn't with it, but just that very minute it occurred to me
consumers of factory farmed meat got no (moral) authority

Isn't it aggressive to accuse someone of doing something they didn't do? You said I was defending the filmmakers when I was not. And you have continued…

I also didn't say it excludes you from criticizing the film or filmmakers if you eat meat. I simply said it's hypocritical to do so. You are welcome to disagree with me.

I also didn't call anyone out for eating meat. I simply pointed out that the meat industry is constantly abusing animals in ways that make (IMHO!) criticizing this film appear ridiculous. You are free to disagree with me again, but please stop taking me to task for saying things I didn't say.

Saying I have given tacit approval to the film because I posted it could be a point, but I also don't feel it's my job to post only things that pass a certain moral test. Beyond that I have confidence that the Anthill crew acted in good faith, because I know them. I also know that hundreds of hours of planning and safety went into the shot and that the horses are trained to do this sort of work. Is it squeaky clean and beyond reproach? Of course not. But mountain biking isn't either.

And my personal belief is that, while I wouldn't choose to put a scene like that in a film I worked on, I didn't find it particularly offensive.

Those who find it offensive are certainly entitled to that opinion and I have no issue with that. But the righteous indignation seen here is (IMHO!) misplaced.

Feel free to disagree with that as well.

I did actually retract this original comment as it was needlessly aggressive. Apologies. We definitely disagree on some points and we'll leave it there.

…You can be offended and still act like a dick to animals. That's your right as hypocritical internet commenters. But I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that if you were really serious about preventing cruelty to animals you wouldn't participate in cruelty to animals. Otherwise you are just being critical on the internet for sport.

Oh come on guys, not THAT hard to see what he was getting at :)

One encouraging sign here might be that the critics of MTB seem to be coming from further and further out in left field. The tinfoil hat wearer thinking that it's Cam's movie and he is the great satan might be the type of thing that will come up regardless of horses, or any other reality. Nutbars are going to be nutbars. But we seem to be doing OK these days by the sane general public eh? :thumbsup: