I feel bad for the Hikers...

Sorry you had a bad one on Monday. We were out there too but finished our ride before 11am and didn't have any issues with other riders. I definitely have had more bad days on Seymour though than Fromme. I think part of the problem is that there is shuttle access, 2 way connector trails that are relatively narrow and the occasional large group or mudbunny ride and you can start getting your flow interrupted pretty easily. 

No solutions or ideas here really. Just to suggest that maybe we need a more detailed set of etiquette guidelines just for Seymour itself that align with a higher density of riders on a narrower ( and sometimes 2 way) trail network. Then post those guidelines in more places might be helpful.

Posted by: Vikb

I slow down and chat with every hiker I meet on the trails. Sometimes I don't mind. Sometimes it ruins my flow, but I figure every good interaction they have with a mountain biker helps our cause in some small way. I try and usually get into a quick discussion about what a great day it is to be outside enjoying the forest so they can see we are both out there for the same reasons even if our chosen activities are different. I'm especially careful to do this when I am travelling as last thing I want to do is F-up someone else's trail access as a visitor.

I'm on Van Isle though so the user density is not super high and I am not stopping 10 times in an hour to chat.

Agree and this is how I approach it. Most hikers I encounter seem to get fully off the trail and yield to bikers, but I still stop or slow way down and thank them as I go past, wish a good day etc. 

Lately I've seen descending riders just assume riders climbing will yield to them, happened 3 or 4 times on Jacks in Squamish last week, serious WTF on that one. Also F anyone who doesn't slow down around kids.

About a year ago, I was climbing Good Sir Martin. A hiker moved out of the way to let me by. I gave a smile and a friendly "hello" and kept going. She responded grumpily and said "you're welcome." I thought I was being friendly but neglected to say the words "thank you." She was likely having a bad day, or maybe I encountered her after a dozen other bikers had gone by her. But her reaction was a wake-up call. Saying "thank you" goes a long way.

I don`t think posting guidelines would affect those who lack etiquette. Those folks don`t seem to think that the rules apply to them. I have seen good and bad hikers, dog walkers, climbers and shuttlers. I don`t think one can generalize about any one group of outdoor enthusiasts.

Posted by: basilbrushboomboom

Related Qs from an older fart and north shore noob.

1. Is there a reason roadies and MTBers don't have bike bells out here?

2. Is it now acceptable to not yield to those traveling up hill? (esp on fromme ascent)

3. Am I allowed to be miffed about trail runners going down Expresso and cutting corners on a busy Sunday afternoon ?

As for question number 2, I have noticed that on weekends there seems to be more traffic coming down Dreamweaver and on the shared section with the ascent trail many people are more concerned about keeping up with their buddies than slowing down to yield to climbers.  It's narrow too in spots.  C'mon people!

Lots of trail runners out there now.  I understand that we are all sharing the trail, but the trail is a downhill, bike primary.  If riders catch up to a group of runners should they not yield?

The only time I'd expect a downhill rider to have right of way is if it's a downhill specific bike trail and signed that way at all access points. Otherwise I'd assume I would have to yield to folks climbing and all hikers/runners.  I don't think a slower rider or slower runners needs to yield to a faster rider coming up behind them. Usually they will get out of the way at some point, but I don't think it's something the faster rider behind them should expect.

I suppose we are just observing what mountain biking is like in a big city. People in Vancouver walk on the sidewalks the same way they ride their mtb. 20 years ago the mtb community used to be fairly small despite being in a large city. Now as the city grows and the mtb community with it, people just act big city jerkish.

Posted by: D_C_

About a year ago, I was climbing Good Sir Martin. A hiker moved out of the way to let me by. I gave a smile and a friendly "hello" and kept going. She responded grumpily and said "you're welcome." I thought I was being friendly but neglected to say the words "thank you." She was likely having a bad day, or maybe I encountered her after a dozen other bikers had gone by her. But her reaction was a wake-up call. Saying "thank you" goes a long way.

I’ve run into a woman here in Whistler that said the same things. She had stepped aside on the trail I was riding as she heard my freehub. I was not going fast as this trail is popular. I said “hi how are you” and the same “your welcome” was the response. That was followed by “dogs are supposed to be on a leash” as my two labs followed along. But the trail is well outside of the RMOW jurisdictional boundaries. My wife has had a similar interaction with this woman while walking and riding as have other people I know. She has issues. 

Symptoms of a crowded place. We all need to respect each other’s presence and use of our trail systems.

You know how there is a skiers code on the back of every ski pass? Maybe we need to have a bikers code pop up every time you load up trailforks.

When I started mountain biking - long long before the invention of the internet, someone usually had to show you the trails. People were indoctrinated into mountain biking by people they knew and as such, indoctrinated to the "biking code."  I've never taking a mountain bike clinic or seen a code printed but 20+ years ago, everyone seemed to know the rules of the trail. I bet many riders who are under the age of thirty do not even know there is a rule to let the climbing rider have the "right of way." If I grew up riding whistler bike park, I would assume that mountain biking is all about going downhill too.

Posted by: RAHrider

You know how there is a skiers code on the back of every ski pass? Maybe we need to have a bikers code pop up every time you load up trailforks.

When I started mountain biking - long long before the invention of the internet, someone usually had to show you the trails. People were indoctrinated into mountain biking by people they knew and as such, indoctrinated to the "biking code."  I've never taking a mountain bike clinic or seen a code printed but 20+ years ago, everyone seemed to know the rules of the trail. I bet many riders who are under the age of thirty do not even know there is a rule to let the climbing rider have the "right of way." If I grew up riding whistler bike park, I would assume that mountain biking is all about going downhill too.

Courtesy of WORCA

And from NSMBA 101:

Please remember that we are all ambassadors for mountain biking​. The behaviour of a single mountain biker reflects on the mountain biking community as a whole.

Multi Use Trails

Trails designated as multi use are to be enjoyed by all (mountain bikes, runners, and hikers) – the symbols clearly depict this. The dog paw represents trails which are suitable for commercial dog walkers.

Each user group must share the trail – courtesy has the right of way!

Posted by: JBV

urban entitlement and crowded trails. and where did all the freaking trail runners suddenly come from, they're a horde. so many hardcore type A's pounding the trails out there.

Just wait until they discover mountainbiking for rehab and recovery.

On a serious note: 

I do not understand why shops do not hand out a sort of card/leaflet on trail etiquette with each new bike that is being sold. The shop assistant has to go through the rules and manners with the new owner of a bike. Heck, even the bike companies could do that.

A lot of the people who break the rules / do not practice trail etiquette, think the rules don't apply to them. They would not read any posted advisories or listen to any advice. "That info is meant for other people, not me."

Posted by: Stuminator

A lot of the people who break the rules / do not practice trail etiquette, think the rules don't apply to them. They would not read any posted advisories or listen to any advice. "That info is meant for other people, not me."

Which reminds me of traffic and my daily commute or moms who drop off their kids at school in their SUVs while blocking the road.