Ah, so Type-1ers are allowed to offset their sins with Type 2 credits! Perhaps we can set up a Type 1/2 offset market so roadies doing long indoor trainer sessions can earn Type 2 credits which they can then sell to e-bikers who need them to be allowed on our trails.
Why I don’t want an ebike (but I don’t hate them)
Posted by: rhw
Ah, so Type-1ers are allowed to offset their sins with Type 2 credits! Perhaps we can set up a Type 1/2 offset market so roadies doing long indoor trainer sessions can earn Type 2 credits which they can then sell to e-bikers who need them to be allowed on our trails.
lol - that's just my deal and the way things work out. I pedal because I want to, not because I feel the need to. Besides doing my tiny part for the planet, the extra $$$ in my pocket from not having to fill up the tank as much is also a nice benefit.
Posted by: craw
I'm not an e-bike proponent. But I have ridden one. It's possible to crush yourself and get just as blown out on an e-bike as it is a regular bike. If you want to suffer, you can suffer on an e-bike. The only difference is that you can get much much further and climb way higher (but also bring with you the risk of running out of power on your 50+lb bike). It's tricky to nail down the line between the kinds of technological help that are ok and those which are not.
Look at the huge improvements in ski touring tech in the last 10 years that allow you to go further faster more safely than ever before. Or 31lb carbon superbikes? These are all ok but a battery assist pedal bicycle is a step too far? I have my misgivings about e-bikes but the objections are going to need some more consistent logic.
For me the line is what is powering the bike. If it’s the person, it’s mountain biking. If it’s a motor it’s not mountain biking, it’s something else.
Perhaps this not “consistent” with...something...but with the amount of cycling I’ve done over the years I can be fairly certain that sports on bikes that use motors are a very different thing than sports on bikes that don’t. Bikin with motors might be fun, but I get too much satisfaction from pedaling to give a shit.
As to what’s allowed where it’s pretty obvious that mountain mopeds allow for higher speeds and easier access. This may not always be appropriate for all areas. I hope that land managers can regulate things well and that these newcomers learn proper trail etiquette while they join us on the trails we’ve worked so hard to build and protect.
Last edited by: tashi on Sept. 17, 2018, 7:59 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Posted by: craw
Look at the huge improvements in ski touring tech in the last 10 years that allow you to go further faster more safely than ever before.
Not quite the same...yes, lighter, more efficient, and more reliable, but still heavily reliant on quads, lungs, and heart. Now, if they took wireless shifter technology and adapted it to remote heel lifts, THAT would be something!!
Posted by: tashi
For me the line is what is powering the bike. If it’s the person, it’s mountain biking. If it’s a motor it’s not mountain biking, it’s something else.
Perhaps this not “consistent” with...something...but with the amount of cycling I’ve done over the years I can be fairly certain that sports on bikes that use motors are a very different thing than sports on bikes that don’t. Bikin with motors might be fun, but I get too much satisfaction from pedaling to give a shit.
As to what’s allowed where it’s pretty obvious that mountain mopeds allow for higher speeds and easier access. This may not always be appropriate for all areas. I hope that land managers can regulate things well and that these newcomers learn proper trail etiquette while they join us on the trails we’ve worked so hard to build and protect.
This.
If I look back to the technology of the 80's and 90's, we saw full suspension, disc brakes, and 2.5 tires like the end of "real biking"....comparatively speaking, the rides looked more like motorcycles compared to the steeds of the day. I thought "no way! I'm gonna ride a real bike"...of course, I eventually fully embraced the technology and ride a 27 with 2.5s, big ass disc brakes, and 6" of plushness all around.
Take a look at some of the older videos and watch how most people rode trails back then....compared to how the current breed of enduro bikes of today ride, it's a world of difference. In fact, we have adapted trails to suit the evolving technology. If you were to go back in time, you would see the difference in some of the classic rides. 7th Secret, Leppard, Crinkum, Kirkford, have all been adjusted to the way we ride today (erosion issues aside). While I personally draw the line at assist/motorised, I have to wonder when the day might come when my body doesn't deliver me to the spots I want to be and I give in to some assist.
I also wonder if history will simply repeat itself and the trails follow the technology.
Posted by: syncro
Posted by: rhw
At the end of the day some people enjoy the hard work of earning the smiles. For me, I wouldn't feel as good about nailing a tech climb knowing the motor helped me do it.
But think about ripping up Asian Adonis, then turning around and ripping back down. Think of all the fun to be had!
Posted by: mudrunner
Posted by: craw
Look at the huge improvements in ski touring tech in the last 10 years that allow you to go further faster more safely than ever before.
Not quite the same...yes, lighter, more efficient, and more reliable, but still heavily reliant on quads, lungs, and heart. Now, if they took wireless shifter technology and adapted it to remote heel lifts, THAT would be something!!
How about some kind of light weight battery powered tank track that fits on the back of the skis? Then you can just cruise right up to the top with no effort whatsoever, now everyone can ski the backcountry! Take them off and stick in your pack for the ski down. I'm sure the back country community will be stoked, It's already happening in Europe and all the pros are doing it.......
Last edited by: Brocklanders on Sept. 19, 2018, 8:13 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Posted by: rhw
Posted by: syncro
I agree with your other comment that the big appeal for ebikes is the ride from home to the mtn instead of driving, but there's also the drawback of faster wear and tear on tires. When you're looking at $150-200 for a set, doing a ton of mileage on the road that burns up your rubber becomes less appealing.
Still more appealing than burning a bunch of fossil fuel, let alone sitting in traffic!
I'm not sure the idea of e-moped commuting to the trailhead from way overtown on a 50lb pig with slow 2.5 knobbies is even in the realm of reality.
How about put some faster rolling 2.3's on the 30lb wonder bike, give a bit of extra time and give it a shot? Or drive part way?
I've been mostly riding to the trailhead last couple of years, been working out well. Miss my tall tread 2.7's, but 2.3's can get adjusted to. Heck, Loic just won Worlds on 2.3's.
Electric cargo bike with your regular mountain bike attached to the back.
The bonus will be that you use the electric cargo bike to commute to work, go grocery shopping, to go grab a beer, and run errands.
Depending on how much you rely on the electric motor on the cargo bike you would likely end up in better shape as you're on the bike a whole lot more.
I was going to say "Kona should make an electric Ute" Looking at their site; they do.
Posted by: Hepcat
Posted by: rhw
Posted by: syncro
I agree with your other comment that the big appeal for ebikes is the ride from home to the mtn instead of driving, but there's also the drawback of faster wear and tear on tires. When you're looking at $150-200 for a set, doing a ton of mileage on the road that burns up your rubber becomes less appealing.
Still more appealing than burning a bunch of fossil fuel, let alone sitting in traffic!
I'm not sure the idea of e-moped commuting to the trailhead from way overtown on a 50lb pig with slow 2.5 knobbies is even in the realm of reality.
How about put some faster rolling 2.3's on the 30lb wonder bike, give a bit of extra time and give it a shot? Or drive part way?
I've been mostly riding to the trailhead last couple of years, been working out well. Miss my tall tread 2.7's, but 2.3's can get adjusted to. Heck, Loic just won Worlds on 2.3's.
Totally. It's not really the distance, it's the time. 24km each way from East Van makes a rip up Fromme a huge time commitment. It's totally doable but it can take a long time. I figure if it costs and extra set of tires or two per season but that much less driving then it's a win. It makes a compelling argument for a purposeful hardtail. #newbikejustification
Posted by: craw
Totally. It's not really the distance, it's the time. 24km each way from East Van makes a rip up Fromme a huge time commitment. It's totally doable but it can take a long time. I figure if it costs and extra set of tires or two per season but that much less driving then it's a win. It makes a compelling argument for a purposeful hardtail. #newbikejustification
I think time is probably one of the big factors for many people who have switched to ebikes. Life gets way busier for people as they get older so the ability to shave a bunch of time off your ride up the service road may mean the difference between getting a ride in or not at all.
Posted by: craw
...makes a compelling argument for a purposeful hardtail. #newbikejustification
Ah, that it does!
Posted by: syncro
I think time is probably one of the big factors for many people who have switched to ebikes. Life gets way busier for people as they get older so the ability to shave a bunch of time off your ride up the service road may mean the difference between getting a ride in or not at all.
Or get a light. $6000-15000 on an emoped or $500 on a wicked lamp.
Posted by: rideitall
Posted by: syncro
Posted by: rhw
At the end of the day some people enjoy the hard work of earning the smiles. For me, I wouldn't feel as good about nailing a tech climb knowing the motor helped me do it.
But think about ripping up Asian Adonis, then turning around and ripping back down. Think of all the fun to be had!
Climbing up AA, what could go wrong?
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