How often do you take your gun when you ride?

Fuck your guns, you ain't got shit on me. That's not me, but you get the point.

Fool forgot his musket.

Posted by: TonyJ

Ouch,

I know and understand all that, but thanks for the clarification.

I was putting that info out for our obviously uninformed US of A poster, who thought that guns were as common in Canada as the USA. Between our 2 posts, now I think the OP will understand why his question doesn't make any sense for Canadians.

EDIT. Sorry, thought you must be from the USA, but I guess I was wrong, just figured that all us Canadians sorta knew about our gun laws. I guess if you have never felt the need to try to purchase a handgun, you may not know what he actual laws about it are (clarified by Ouch).

I know about Canadian gun laws. I was more curious if people wished they could carry or felt the need to. Apparently,  as per pinkbike, Americans quite commonly feel the need and do so. I was also curious about people's impressions about traveling to the US of A. My perspective on Americans has changed greatly in the last three years. In my mind, that country needs to redeem itself before I will want to go back. I find trump deplorable. I am personally insulted by the fact that he buddies up and expresses "love" for murderous dictators with whom his country is still at war while disparaging our prime minister. The fact that 1/2 their population voted for him and continue to love him speaks volumes about them. Why would I visit a country in which there are more guns than people, has the highest incarceration rate in the world, has regular violent murders and deaths, has regular mass murders and 1/2 the country think trump is a better President than Abe Lincoln? 

As you can tell, I feel strongly about all this. I am happy to hear other options and frankly, I'd be happy if someone could convince me differently of our closest neighbors. in the meantime, I'm going to go dust off my sabre and musket, just in case ...

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: TonyJ

Ouch,

I know and understand all that, but thanks for the clarification.

I was putting that info out for our obviously uninformed US of A poster, who thought that guns were as common in Canada as the USA. Between our 2 posts, now I think the OP will understand why his question doesn't make any sense for Canadians.

EDIT. Sorry, thought you must be from the USA, but I guess I was wrong, just figured that all us Canadians sorta knew about our gun laws. I guess if you have never felt the need to try to purchase a handgun, you may not know what he actual laws about it are (clarified by Ouch).

I know about Canadian gun laws. I was more curious if people wished they could carry or felt the need to. Apparently,  as per pinkbike, Americans quite commonly feel the need and do so. I was also curious about people's impressions about traveling to the US of A. My perspective on Americans has changed greatly in the last three years. In my mind, that country needs to redeem itself before I will want to go back. I find trump deplorable. I am personally insulted by the fact that he buddies up and expresses "love" for murderous dictators with whom his country is still at war while disparaging our prime minister. The fact that 1/2 their population voted for him and continue to love him speaks volumes about them. Why would I visit a country in which there are more guns than people, has the highest incarceration rate in the world, has regular violent murders and deaths, has regular mass murders and 1/2 the country think trump is a better President than Abe Lincoln? 

As you can tell, I feel strongly about all this. I am happy to hear other options and frankly, I'd be happy if someone could convince me differently of our closest neighbors. in the meantime, I'm going to go dust off my sabre and musket, just in case ...

I understand what you saying, but would about the other half of American's that think Trump is a wing nut? That's 165 million people, 4 times the population of Canada.

being interesting to see the results of your poll if it is posted to the PinkBike or MTBR forums you refer to

Posted by: RAHrider 

The fact that 1/2 their population voted for him and continue to love him speaks volumes about them. Why would I visit a country in which there are more guns than people, has the highest incarceration rate in the world, has regular violent murders and deaths, has regular mass murders and 1/2 the country think trump is a better President than Abe Lincoln? 

Well there was only a 58% voter turnout and only 46% of those voters voted for trump, so it's only about 25% of eligible voters who voted for Trump and about 18% of the total population. As for the Abe thing that was 53% of Republicans that were polled, which is probably only about 20-25% of the total voting public. I think the only conclusion you can draw is that maybe 25% of Americans like Trump and the rest either don't care enough to vote against him or don't see a better alternative. To me that says way more about the American psyche than anything else.

This was an interesting post title to see on the front page of NSMB, to say the least.

I'll attempt to give a different point of view on this topic. Brief background: I'm mid-30s, grew up as a "country boy" in the US, military vet, politically I'm a slightly left-leaning libertarian (F#&K Trump; Tulsi 2020). I've traveled around the US, Canada, and Europe, and would gladly live in BC if property prices weren't so crazy. I've also been spending time deep in the PNW forests for my entire life.

In the western US, there are areas that get remote enough that you can run across people who don't want to be seen. I've encountered a handful of questionable situations in my life... sketchy drug operations and users, unhinged individuals who aren't happy to see you, people foraging for very valuable plants, etc. The odds of these types of encounters turning violent are small, but they exist.

Luckily 95% of MTB trails don't get this deep in the woods, and the traffic that our trails see discourages the aforementioned sketchy people from being near the trails. I never carry a gun while riding, the risk isn't there and the weight isn't worth it. But if I'm hiking, camping, exploring, etc, and I'm straying further and further from civilization, you bet I'm [legally and safely] armed. When you're 20+ miles away from the nearest town, have no cell reception, and can't rely on a PLB for any type of quick response, you have to weigh the odds of self-defense versus the risks you're taking.

A larger aspect is the American "gun culture" which is... significant. Our country was designed to give citizens self-reliance and power over the government, which was the primary motivation behind the Second Amendment (anyone interested should read the Federalist Papers for background and clarity on the intent behind our constitution. Our Founding Fathers would be appalled at the idea of America having a standing Army, and the federal government wielding power over the populous). While many urban areas in the US have abandoned this ideal, a huge majority of areas (by square mileage) depend on self-reliance to thrive and prosper. America is definitely at a crossroad between the wants/needs/desires/ideals of the urban populations versus the rural populations, as seen by our political soap opera of the last 8 years.

So yeah, this topic will absolutely be crazy and foreign to Canadians. Your country is generally safer, your people are generally nicer. You also happily have a fairly liberal (and very functional) Constitutional Monarchy for government, which appears to be indicative of Canadian ideals from what I've experienced.

I'm drinking tea and eating scones for breakfast today, I think I'll get back to that.

Posted by: Pnwpedal

.....

Great post and thanks for sharing. The only thing I'd add is that when the US constitution was written, guns, and access to guns, were very different from what exists now.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Pnwpedal

.....

Great post and thanks for sharing. The only thing I'd add is that when the US constitution was written, guns, and access to guns, were very different from what exists now.

Yes, and no. I'm hesitant to dig into this but this is a civil audience who hopefully will see that I'm just posting some facts...

Repeating rifles existed at the time (what could be considered rudimentary versions of semi-automatic mechanisms), machine guns existed, repeating pistols existed. These were better than what any military had at the time and were available to anybody who wanted to buy them, with no laws to restrict access to anyone. There are far fewer gun owners per capita now (~30%) than there were in 1787.

Currently in the US, machine guns (full automatic) are effectively banned- the paperwork and costs involved are a legal barrier to entry for 99.99% of Americans. Everything else requires a relatively thorough background check to buy legally. Semi-automatic rifles are common and legal, starting at $400 or so for a cheap piece of junk, to $1500 or so for something "military grade" (though still not capable of full automatic fire, which is what militaries use), to whatever you want to spend for some boutique rifles. Cheap junk pistols start at $200, most are $400+, and go to up from there.

Firearms sales between individuals exist, but are rare. It's legally up to the seller to determine if the buyer can legally buy the firearm and can be held criminally liable if they aren't. This is what politicians like to call the "gun show loophole", because theoretically two people could meet at a gun show and exchange a firearm, but actual sellers at gun shows must be licensed dealers and submit background checks. Most people transfer guns through a licensed dealer (with a background check) if they want to sell it to another person.

Black market firearms exist (as they do in all countries), but I really have no idea about that.

BUT... continuing with the Second Amendment, a "well-regulated" (well trained, armed, and capable) "militia" (citizens, not affiliated with the government, willing and able to come to the aid of their country) are the ones who should wield all military power and the government cannot restrict this. That was the intent of our Second Amendment.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just sharing what I know. For most Americans this system works. For some, there are greater issues at hand (drugs, gangs, mental health crisis, etc). We're not a perfect country, and some would argue that our freedom and unlimited potential for prosperity comes at a price.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: RAHrider 

The fact that 1/2 their population voted for him and continue to love him speaks volumes about them. Why would I visit a country in which there are more guns than people, has the highest incarceration rate in the world, has regular violent murders and deaths, has regular mass murders and 1/2 the country think trump is a better President than Abe Lincoln? 

Well there was only a 58% voter turnout and only 46% of those voters voted for trump, so it's only about 25% of eligible voters who voted for Trump and about 18% of the total population. As for the Abe thing that was 53% of Republicans that were polled, which is probably only about 20-25% of the total voting public. I think the only conclusion you can draw is that maybe 25% of Americans like Trump and the rest either don't care enough to vote against him or don't see a better alternative. To me that says way more about the American psyche than anything else.

Most polls done to give a sense of the breakdown of the country are of about 1000 people or so. I see the election as a poll of sorts. If you poll half the population, I think it is fairly safe to assume the other half that did not vote would fall along fairly similar lines. So if about 1/2 of voting Americans supported Trump, probably about 1/2 of non-voting America does as well.

As for the Abe thing, I agree it is a smaller portion but the fact that anyone would think Trump is a good president frightens me. He is racist, misogynistic and a bully. He is largely incomprehensible unless reading a teleprompt. He is a habitual liar and he has put US diplomacy back several decades.

I agree that letting Trump and his followers define America neglects the other 165 million people. That being said, I know there are lots of great Americans out there but it still doesn't mean I want to visit their country. For instance, I have never had a single problem with anyone I have ever met from Columbia, but I can tell you that I am not going down to Columbia any time soon. I can think of dozens of other countries to visit that are safer than the US and where the citizens more closely align with my values generally speaking. I used to think I shared values with most Americans but that is largely because I was getting a lot of information through media from places like New York/California. Now that I see more clearly how about 1/2 the US population thinks/feels I am less inclined to want to visit.

Posted by: Pnwpedal

Yes, and no. I'm hesitant to dig into this but this is a civil audience who hopefully will see that I'm just posting some facts...

Sure, repeating rifles and handguns may have existed, but they can they really compare to modern handguns or say the ill maligned AR15? Could the average American have afforded one of those guns back then? And you mention no rules WRT buying guns, but society and how it functioned was vastly different then compared to today. I don't object to firearm ownership, but I tend to think the obsession over guns strikes me as a bit out of control. The problem is that the horses have already bolted from the barn and firearms are so ubiquitous that the problem will never be reeled in without a major shift in ideology in the US. Heck, even trying to implement some sort of national level regulations on background checks, licensing and training seems to be next to impossible. It's difficult to have a conversation on any sort of firearm control when such a large portion of the population is not even willing to entertain any reduction in their access to firearms. Enough politicians won't seriously consider it because it means too many lost votes. I get that it's part of the American identity, but something's going to have to give at some point.  

FWIW I think most gun owners are relatively responsible people who don't have nefarious purposes in mind when it comes to their guns. However, responsibility can quickly go by the wayside when emotion and mental health gets in the way of rational thinking. That leads me to think that there isn't so much a gun problem as a society problem and unfortunately people have relatively easy access to guns to use to sort out their problems.

Posted by: RAHrider

Most polls done to give a sense of the breakdown of the country are of about 1000 people or so. I see the election as a poll of sorts. If you poll half the population, I think it is fairly safe to assume the other half that did not vote would fall along fairly similar lines. So if about 1/2 of voting Americans supported Trump, probably about 1/2 of non-voting America does as well.

As for the Abe thing, I agree it is a smaller portion but the fact that anyone would think Trump is a good president frightens me. He is racist, misogynistic and a bully. He is largely incomprehensible unless reading a teleprompt. He is a habitual liar and he has put US diplomacy back several decades.

I agree that letting Trump and his followers define America neglects the other 165 million people. That being said, I know there are lots of great Americans out there but it still doesn't mean I want to visit their country. For instance, I have never had a single problem with anyone I have ever met from Columbia, but I can tell you that I am not going down to Columbia any time soon. I can think of dozens of other countries to visit that are safer than the US and where the citizens more closely align with my values generally speaking. I used to think I shared values with most Americans but that is largely because I was getting a lot of information through media from places like New York/California. Now that I see more clearly how about 1/2 the US population thinks/feels I am less inclined to want to visit.

Fair point on the polls/voting issue, but I wonder if a lot of people stayed home simply because they didn't like either choice and therefore that 49/51 split wouldn't follow through as you suggest. I think if them Dems had run someone other than Clinton we wouldn't even be talking about Trump. 

On the idea that people think Trump is good, it mystifies me, but is doesn't surprise me given the way US politics operates and how the avg American seems to think about politics. I know this sounds disparaging towards Americans and recognize that I have a limited view of things down there, but I sometimes find the thinking of the US (the avg American) to be frightenly shallow. I don't necessarily blame the individual though, more the system/society that they developed under.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Pnwpedal

Yes, and no. I'm hesitant to dig into this but this is a civil audience who hopefully will see that I'm just posting some facts...

Sure, repeating rifles and handguns may have existed, but they can they really compare to modern handguns or say the ill maligned AR15? Could the average American have afforded one of those guns back then? And you mention no rules WRT buying guns, but society and how it functioned was vastly different then compared to today. I don't object to firearm ownership, but I tend to think the obsession over guns strikes me as a bit out of control. The problem is that the horses have already bolted from the barn and firearms are so ubiquitous that the problem will never be reeled in without a major shift in ideology in the US. Heck, even trying to implement some sort of national level regulations on background checks, licensing and training seems to be next to impossible. It's difficult to have a conversation on any sort of firearm control when such a large portion of the population is not even willing to entertain any reduction in their access to firearms. Enough politicians won't seriously consider it because it means too many lost votes. I get that it's part of the American identity, but something's going to have to give at some point.

FWIW I think most gun owners are relatively responsible people who don't have nefarious purposes in mind when it comes to their guns. However, responsibility can quickly go by the wayside when emotion and mental health gets in the way of rational thinking. That leads me to think that there isn't so much a gun problem as a society problem and unfortunately people have relatively easy access to guns to use to sort out their problems.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: RAHrider

Most polls done to give a sense of the breakdown of the country are of about 1000 people or so. I see the election as a poll of sorts. If you poll half the population, I think it is fairly safe to assume the other half that did not vote would fall along fairly similar lines. So if about 1/2 of voting Americans supported Trump, probably about 1/2 of non-voting America does as well.

As for the Abe thing, I agree it is a smaller portion but the fact that anyone would think Trump is a good president frightens me. He is racist, misogynistic and a bully. He is largely incomprehensible unless reading a teleprompt. He is a habitual liar and he has put US diplomacy back several decades.

I agree that letting Trump and his followers define America neglects the other 165 million people. That being said, I know there are lots of great Americans out there but it still doesn't mean I want to visit their country. For instance, I have never had a single problem with anyone I have ever met from Columbia, but I can tell you that I am not going down to Columbia any time soon. I can think of dozens of other countries to visit that are safer than the US and where the citizens more closely align with my values generally speaking. I used to think I shared values with most Americans but that is largely because I was getting a lot of information through media from places like New York/California. Now that I see more clearly how about 1/2 the US population thinks/feels I am less inclined to want to visit.

Fair point on the polls/voting issue, but I wonder if a lot of people stayed home simply because they didn't like either choice and therefore that 49/51 split wouldn't follow through as you suggest. I think if them Dems had run someone other than Clinton we wouldn't even be talking about Trump.

On the idea that people think Trump is good, it mystifies me, but is doesn't surprise me given the way US politics operates and how the avg American seems to think about politics. I know this sounds disparaging towards Americans and recognize that I have a limited view of things down there, but I sometimes find the thinking of the US (the avg American) to be frightenly shallow. I don't necessarily blame the individual though, more the system/society that they developed under.

First off, I'm grateful that we can have an intelligent conversation. On a US forum this would have quickly devolved into personal attacks, threats of violence/civil war, and no real discussion.

The world of today could not be fathomed in 1787. The American constitution is the ultimate foundation of our principles (as it should be in a Constitutional Republic) but there is debate over whether the intent should be followed, or a more modern interpretation. That's outside of my control beyond voting for politicians I believe in so I don't worry about it.

As far as the firearms themselves, the "AR15" of today (a 60 year old design that has become the basis of most modern rifles) is practically equivalent to the flintlock musket of the Revolutionary War - the ubiquitous rifle that most citizens can own. Not necessarily the best, but practical enough to get the job done. Applying the Second Amendment as intended, the right of a citizen to own them "shall not be infringed". (See the previous statement over Intent VS Interpretation)

I do agree that the average American has been conditioned to have a very shallow belief system. The quote of "buying things we don't need, with money we don't have, to impress people we don't like" applies far too often. There is a societal issue without a doubt. I have personally stepped away from watching any national/corporate news, especially the "talking head" style of political pundits giving their spin on the news (Fox, MSNBC, etc). I'll check local news for local events, and if a national event is serious enough it will pop up on one of these sources. Life is better that way. Like most Americans, I want to live my best and happiest life and contribute to a good life for my family. Unfortunately the quiet majority are vastly overshadowed by the loudest voices on the extreme ends of the spectrum...

The media was weaponized decades ago against the citizens the government was sworn to protect. How does the second amendment protect Americans from that?

It doesn’t.

For the few who escape that, there are drones.

As a Canadian, Americans depress the shit out of me because they are just a teaser to what’s coming down the pipe here.

At least Trudeau doesn’t want to stone the gays. Small victories.