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How do you like Expresso (Espresso?)

June 15, 2011, 11:24 a.m.
Posts: 3801
Joined: April 13, 2003

The worst rider experience I can think of is the whole shore being shut down because it rained. The shore evolved this way because of the eco system its built in. As well built as Bobsled is, it is still pummelled after barely a year. You can blame people for riding it all weather as much as you want but at the end of the day, dirt is a high maintenance way of building on the coast.

it's funny that the only trail that gets shut down every year is the armoured one. Building techniques are evolving and armouring a whole trail is pretty much a thing of the past (thank god). It's quicker and easier not to pave a trail and the rider experience is higher.

Look how much traffic A-Line gets. If the whole trail was "cobblestoned", the rider experience would be way less.

It's all about drainage. Builders should watch the bonus section of "The Last Digg" on proper building techniques.

:canada:

June 15, 2011, 11:27 a.m.
Posts: 18128
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

It's all about drainage.

yup. Sometimes impossible to correct with existing lines.

crosses fingers that we got it right on the pangor re-route

June 15, 2011, 11:28 a.m.
Posts: 18128
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

CBC has some new gold sections too - maybe someone will re-adopt it…

June 15, 2011, 11:57 a.m.
Posts: 4957
Joined: Nov. 25, 2002

if you can't understand the popular distain for CBC then you are obviously not ever riding good trails.
armoring has its place as patches for small sections, that's about it.

what are 'good trails'? i love ladies as much as the next person, but still have fun doing an occasional cbc rip. i know little of trailbuilding technique, nor am i advocating for cobblestoning the entire shore, but the few patches of bumpy rox do not diminish my enjoyment (through the marvels of modern suspension). this is my only point - i ride down said trail, and it is fun times for me. yay!

June 15, 2011, 11:58 a.m.
Posts: 8935
Joined: Dec. 23, 2005

CBC has some new gold sections too - maybe someone will re-adopt it…

If the land owner approved re-routes CBC could be reclaimed.

It would require a dedicated builder.

Some of the sections that have been properly built over the years are great. Other sections need to either be re-routed or torn out and done over.

Trail days have been great…but not all of the work has been the highest grade.

Who wants to step up and TAP CBC? All this talk of doing work on Expresso and the trail that could MOST benefit from Digger's knowledge and the MEC grant money is CBC.

June 15, 2011, 12:33 p.m.
Posts: 8256
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

All this talk of doing work on Expresso and the trail that could MOST benefit from Digger's knowledge and the MEC grant money is CBC.

Agreed. So this MEC grant can be applied wherever NSMBA sees fit?

WTB Frequency i23 rim, 650b NEW - $40

June 15, 2011, 12:37 p.m.
Posts: 50
Joined: Nov. 13, 2006

found old friend on facebook who knows history of espresso's origins.
joe buchar (claire's cousin). waiting to hear back on who he built it with and what year it was.

Twelve or so years ago, one of the original woodlot builders, Bill (Toadstool, Tsuga, Shotgun) told me he helped build Expresso. My memory may be faulty though, so I am curious to see if you come up with the same name. Last I heard Bill was living in Kelowna.

June 15, 2011, 12:46 p.m.
Posts: 8935
Joined: Dec. 23, 2005

Cam what strings are attached to the MEC grant? How did this grant come about? Did the grant come in via the NSMBA?

Agreed. So this MEC grant can be applied wherever NSMBA sees fit?

I asked a couple questions about the grant many pages ago. Hope Cam can shed some light on the actual grant and the strings attached.

June 15, 2011, 1:16 p.m.
Posts: 14442
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Who wants to step up and TAP CBC? All this talk of doing work on Expresso and the trail that could MOST benefit from Digger's knowledge and the MEC grant money is CBC.

Ugh. Please don't.

I'm sure the stonemasons would TAP it so that they could teach apprentices the fine art of cobblestoning.

June 15, 2011, 1:58 p.m.
Posts: 7306
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Twelve or so years ago, one of the original woodlot builders, Bill (Toadstool, Tsuga, Shotgun) told me he helped build Expresso. My memory may be faulty though, so I am curious to see if you come up with the same name. Last I heard Bill was living in Kelowna.

Bill moved from Kelowna and has been living in Courtney for sometime now(5 years?)
I'll see if I can get some info, as my dad still keeps in contact with him.

June 15, 2011, 4:30 p.m.
Posts: 3989
Joined: Feb. 23, 2005

So who's up for covering the entire length of CBC in gold and maintaining a soil surface rather than rock work…… anybody ..{sound of crickets chirping}….. really anybody? Sure, abandon the old, cut a new line, that would be fun and cool, but er humping dirt for the unappreciative masses, not so much.

Rock or gold; the debate goes back and forward all the time. I strongly believe that each has it's pro and cons, each will work better under different conditions and circumstances and they need not be mutually exclusive.

Like most, I prefer riding on dirt, but as a part time builder, the last thing I want to do is to go back to the same piece of trail, year in year out, to re-fill sections of trail that have been blown out by any combination of high traffic, uncaring riders, novice riders and/or water. I would far prefer to build nice new shiny stuff or work on different sections of trails or 'gasp'; other trails that need work. As a consequence I have used a lot of rock work in the past and if people don't like riding the trail bed, trail features are added to make sure they stay on the trail bed. Don't like rock work, ride something else.

I personally love riding Todd's revitalized trail, it absolutely works with my less than elite skillz. I'm NOT saying it's dumbed down, I can just achieve more flow than previous and the wood work is hellalotafun. However, looking at the trail bed toward the upper section, I can already see significant signs of wear and tear in what appears to be less than a year. Signs of the increase traffic perhaps?

I'm not sure how many hours Todd puts into that trail, but it has gotta be in the region of 1000+/year or even a lot more. I doubt there are any other builders on the NS that can sustain that level of effort, so I really do question how sustainable a high traffic, all dirt trail will be.

Builders and good volunteers are in short supply, and I often wonder how long they will last bitching buckets of gold to the same spot year after year? Very few (if any?) have Todd's stamina and determination.

I suspect that dirt trails may require more work than people imagine, particularly on more advanced and steeper terrain. Sure Bobsled can be designed to minimize erosion with grade reversals etc, but it's not that steep. Is it realistic to consider a trail like Ladies, with all the traffic it get's, as a sustainable dirt only trail, if there was no Todd? I do not know the answer to this question, but it may be something the NSMBA should start to try and track. It would be good to know how many hours it took to build the bridge, install the rock work or establish and maintain a dirt trail bed and how long each lasted.

We may find that building a burly bridge or rocking in a difficult section of trail that takes 20-40 man hours to build but lasts 10-15 years is more 'time effective' than replacing dirt every 1-2 years? Who knows, may be Todd does?

Another thing to consider, dirt trails most definitely equate to a great user experience, but at what cost? We may end up with a few really nice buffed trails, but then will the DNV turn around and try to shut down all the remaining old school 'crappy' trails because there are not enough resources to keep them all buffed so nicely.

Sorry for any crap spelling I should be going home to watch the telly.

Please let me demonstrate the ride around; really it's no trouble.

June 15, 2011, 5:18 p.m.
Posts: 6328
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

CBC was built before shuttling and never intended to accommodate the traffic.

If it were a dog it would be shot.

Shut it down.

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June 15, 2011, 5:43 p.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

After going through the thread. I find it funny how those who argue against improvements, reroutes, and want things they way they where. Sound awfully similar to the arguments from those who want riding restricted even more.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

June 17, 2011, 6:54 a.m.
Posts: 3989
Joined: Feb. 23, 2005

CBC was built before shuttling and never intended to accommodate the traffic.

If it were a dog it would be shot.

Shut it down.

Speaking of which, nice to see some work being down on the 'best trail on the shore'.

Please let me demonstrate the ride around; really it's no trouble.

June 17, 2011, 1:30 p.m.
Posts: 5225
Joined: July 22, 2003

So who's up for covering the entire length of CBC in gold and maintaining a soil surface rather than rock work…… anybody ..{sound of crickets chirping}….. really anybody? Sure, abandon the old, cut a new line, that would be fun and cool, but er humping dirt for the unappreciative masses, not so much.

Rock or gold; the debate goes back and forward all the time. I strongly believe that each has it's pro and cons, each will work better under different conditions and circumstances and they need not be mutually exclusive.

Like most, I prefer riding on dirt, but as a part time builder, the last thing I want to do is to go back to the same piece of trail, year in year out, to re-fill sections of trail that have been blown out by any combination of high traffic, uncaring riders, novice riders and/or water. I would far prefer to build nice new shiny stuff or work on different sections of trails or 'gasp'; other trails that need work. As a consequence I have used a lot of rock work in the past and if people don't like riding the trail bed, trail features are added to make sure they stay on the trail bed. Don't like rock work, ride something else.

I personally love riding Todd's revitalized trail, it absolutely works with my less than elite skillz. I'm NOT saying it's dumbed down, I can just achieve more flow than previous and the wood work is hellalotafun. However, looking at the trail bed toward the upper section, I can already see significant signs of wear and tear in what appears to be less than a year. Signs of the increase traffic perhaps?

I'm not sure how many hours Todd puts into that trail, but it has gotta be in the region of 1000+/year or even a lot more. I doubt there are any other builders on the NS that can sustain that level of effort, so I really do question how sustainable a high traffic, all dirt trail will be.

Builders and good volunteers are in short supply, and I often wonder how long they will last bitching buckets of gold to the same spot year after year? Very few (if any?) have Todd's stamina and determination.

I suspect that dirt trails may require more work than people imagine, particularly on more advanced and steeper terrain. Sure Bobsled can be designed to minimize erosion with grade reversals etc, but it's not that steep. Is it realistic to consider a trail like Ladies, with all the traffic it get's, as a sustainable dirt only trail, if there was no Todd? I do not know the answer to this question, but it may be something the NSMBA should start to try and track. It would be good to know how many hours it took to build the bridge, install the rock work or establish and maintain a dirt trail bed and how long each lasted.

We may find that building a burly bridge or rocking in a difficult section of trail that takes 20-40 man hours to build but lasts 10-15 years is more 'time effective' than replacing dirt every 1-2 years? Who knows, may be Todd does?

Another thing to consider, dirt trails most definitely equate to a great user experience, but at what cost? We may end up with a few really nice buffed trails, but then will the DNV turn around and try to shut down all the remaining old school 'crappy' trails because there are not enough resources to keep them all buffed so nicely.

Agreed 100%.

I think it remains to be seen just how well the current trend of golding trails will work in the long term.

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