How do you like Expresso (Espresso?)

Exactly. Enough riders go down a trail and the dirt is gone.

re-routes are a very viable option, done properly including returning the old line to the forest. It happened very well on LOC a few years ago, and is happening again now en masse on Fromme and Seymour.

There are some high up trails (you know, the one by the tree) on the other mountain that really would benefit from closing the old and opening a new.

To put this thread back on track towards the Expresso…

I enjoy the 1st half of the trail very much, where as the bottom is not enjoyable and is what keeps me from riding the trail more often. Also, do not believe I have ever met Cam or Rooter, at least not knowingly.

Seems like there is quite a list of what Rooter has done in regards to trail work.

Cam are you able to provide some details on the work you have done on trails, to put some weight behind your post?

Cam's proposing to drive the funding to drive a very experienced builder. That's very admirable in my eyes, and he doesn't need to justify anything.

This thread on the other hand… At least it ended in good discussion once we derailed it.

Just to reiterate, I don't know either of them.

Cam going to bat for a friend and to get trail work kick started on Expresso is wonderful, but he has put himself in an awkward position due to this process of going about it in this public forum. Questions of politics and personal dislikes are bound to rise up. Especially to the one who posses the questions.

I think its unfair for someone to throw stones from the sideline. And to me it seems like Cam is more on the sidelines in trail development (just in regards to shovel work). But I fully expect to be wrong and that is where I asked Cam to detail his contributions to trail work. I bring this up as it is easy to sling mud from an armchair and take someone else's volunteer work for granted. (I admit, I have not given back nearly as much as I have enjoyed the NS trails). Where as it sounds like Rooter has contributed hundred of hours to the cause and these past contributions should not be disregarded.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Cam, I ask the question for perspective. And I surely have not given a drop to the NS trails compared to him, he seems like a very valued member of the bike community.

Just to reiterate, I don't know either of them.

You must be fairly new around here?

Everyone involved has contributed huge amounts to the shore in many forms. None of them need to present their resume for the masses.

This particular issue should have been addressed outside the public eye. Let's leave it at that.

I was the guy back in about '99 who opened up that little rock face half way down that feeds into that stupid little diving board log ride. :lol:

sweet! we know the original builder now! Wayne, we'll need you to come down and fix'er up. kthxbye.

At some point I felt, a representative from NSMBA Should step in and answer a few questions and state a few facts. I have been sitting back while this thread has grown the last few days while being in contact with everyone involved.

-Was there a breakdown in communication?.. Yes (by everyone involved including the DNV, NSMBA ,NSMB, Permit Applicant)
-Is a public discussion regarding a trail a good thing for our community?.. Yes
-Is a negative public discussion regarding the efforts of a volunteer a good thing for our community?.. No
-Is there room for a private discussion between a volunteer, individuals and the NSMBA if commitments are not maintained… Yes
- Have issues regarding permits on Fromme happened in the past? . Yes
- Is there a way to prevent this from happening again?..Yes
- Do all builders need to submit a trail plan for approval before any work starts? Yes
-Is there a current application process that is consistent from one builder to the next? No
-Have we proposed an updated permit system that would put in place a consistent process for obtaining a permit? Yes
- Is there a way to prevent this from happening again?..Yes (see above)
- The NSMBA is here to try and do the best possible job in the interest of the trails and community.
-The NSMBA appreciates all volunteers for time commitments, and for circumstances which would prevent one from volunteering their time.

- Is there a place for new school flow?. Yes
- Is there a place for old school tech? .. Yes
- Are we Dumbing down the Shore?.. No

-Are there riders that like the new updated “ladies only”?… YES
-Are there riders that dislike the new updated “ladies only”…YES
-The mission statement of the NSMBA is “Trails for all, trails forever!
-Are there currently trails that do not have permits that are open for adoption?…Yes

- If you are interested in doing trail work and getting involved contact the NSMBA at ([email protected])
- Are there other potential projects on Fromme mountain? .. Yes
- The NSMBA is currently in contact with both Cam and Rooter working towards a solution that would be positive for the community and trails moving forward.

Should you wish to discuss the above, I can be contacted at [email protected]
Thank you to everyone for your input and to all the builders and volunteers who keep things moving forward.

Adam Walsh
Vice President [HTML_REMOVED] Advocacy Director
North Shore Mountain Bike Association

Rock armouring is another thing that's evolved. Anyone who has been on a heavy traffic trail that's armoured will probably have noticed that one of two things has happened:
1: People don't like riding over rocks and create water catching ditches beside the armour perpetuating and accelerating erosion.
2: The rock is getting polished and is slick even when dry.

These are two more reasons why trails need to evolve and change, as the builders learn, and the ridership increases, something has to be done differently.

well maybe we should just start hauling bags of concrete into the forest and doing a broom finsih on top. you end up with a nice hard wearing and fast rolling surface that still has tons of traction. if i recall hasn't someone already tried this on some drop named after money somewhere?

;)

well maybe we should just start hauling bags of concrete into the forest and doing a broom finsih on top. you end up with a nice hard wearing and fast rolling surface that still has tons of traction. if i recall hasn't someone already tried this on some drop named after money somewhere?
;)

they built one those on blackcomb a couple of years back, hosted some big race…… :)

….there's been a lot of talk with them about having a toonie go up it, keeps getting shut down though unfortunately…

I was the guy back in about '99 who opened up that little rock face half way down that feeds into that stupid little diving board log ride. :lol:

RIP bouncy log, it was fun riding doubles on it

Cam are you able to provide some details on the work you have done on trails, to put some weight behind your post?

I have done very little work on the trail. I'm not a trail builder.

they built one those on blackcomb a couple of years back, hosted some big race…… :)

….there's been a lot of talk with them about having a toonie go up it, keeps getting shut down though unfortunately…

sigh

well maybe we should just start hauling bags of concrete into the forest and doing a broom finsih on top. you end up with a nice hard wearing and fast rolling surface that still has tons of traction. if i recall hasn't someone already tried this on some drop named after money somewhere?

There is also a bridge on Fromme made out of concrete. That sucker never gets green and slick and won't be rotting anytime soon.