How do you like Expresso (Espresso?)

The last time I was down Expresso I wasn't very impressed. It is a good line with some interesting possibilities but imho - it needs a serious overhaul. A builder had the permit to work on it last year but to my knowledge no work was done. Structures are falling over, there is water damage, indistinct lines and it's generally a mess. Again - imho.

With our grant from MEC we were hoping to get Digger working on Expresso to provide an alternative to Ladies - which is getting massive traffic now. The previous permit holder apparently got wind of this and went directly to the district to renew his permit to prevent this. The word is (I have attempted to contact him directly to no avail) he doesn't want Expresso to move toward the new Ladies in style and build. I'm not sure if he actually intends to do any work or if this was simply a preventive measure.

He may have a point - assuming any actual work gets done - that Expresso should remain the way it is now but with some minor maintenance. I respectfully disagree. I think another trail like Ladies - with some traditional North Shore features, solid trail bed work, and more flow - would be a huge addition to that flank.

What are the riders' thoughts?

Sounds like the permit owner is cock blocking you. I don't know why people are so resistant to change. I for one much prefer the new flowy trails. Maybe it's because I'm officially in the "I'm too old for this crap" club, but I don't like going for a ride and wondering if this is the ride that I get hurt (again).

There seems to be a lot of people holding on to the idea that rocky, slick, blown out fall line trails with sketchy woodwork is what defines the shore, and because of that, I don't come over that way much any more because other local hills are moving on and learning from prior incarnations of the trail, and nearly every time, I prefer the rebuild.

I'm with you Cam, time to let go and evolve.

Please don't change it. Its a classic, I take my friends down it all the time and we love it.
To be perfectly honest I like the classic shore style trails, any work that needs to get done should be to maintain the trail not dumb it down.
Please don't change this trail.
To be completely honest I don't like the way Ladies is now, the only good thing about the rebuild is the fact it keeps the masses off the good trails.

Neg Rep away but please leave some of the good trail alone.

please leave some of the good trails alone.

this. But rebuild rotting structures with solid wood. If you have a permit, do the work. Cockblocking = bad.

LOC is meant to be a pedally smooth easier line that could use more gold. Just saying…

water flowing down the trail surface, broken/sketchy stunts are bad and take away from our ability to showcase as sustainable trail users and builders. anything that hinders that goal is a detriment to mountain biking as a whole.

this. But rebuild rotting structures with solid wood. If you have a permit, do the work. Cockblocking = bad.

LOC is meant to be a pedally smooth easier line that could use more gold. Just saying…

we rode LOC on sunday afternoon and had a blast, there are plenty of things that can be done in maintain/improve a trail that don't change the character of a trail….the permit holder should at least be willing to talk and listen to others. holding a permit but refusing to do necessary work is mega-lame, imo.

What about applying the Grant money and getting Digger onto the Star Fish rebuild project?

Or the project to re-work Jerry Rig?

Both of those projects could benefit from the money and Digger.

I agree that Espresso is not really a favourite trail of mine, but it does have a following.

water flowing down the trail surface, broken/sketchy stunts are bad and take away from our ability to showcase as sustainable trail users and builders. anything that hinders that goal is a detriment to mountain biking as a whole.

Agreed. Most of the 'classic' shore trails are fall line water traps with gratuitous wooden features that often don't even fit the flow of the trail. It's been a recent discovery of mine that trails with stunts take on a completely different characteristic if you ignore the stunts and keep your speed/flow going, and I for one, think that they become more fun. Go ride a trail with stunts that have ride arounds, take a small pedally bike, rip around the wooden features and keep your speed going, and report back. It's a totally different experience, the trails start to flow, this is why the new Ladies is so much better for me, it seems a little easier at first, but you can keep so much more speed up on it, adding a new challenge.
I'm not saying get rid of stunts and other TTF, but I am saying that more thought can be put into their implementation; learn and adapt. Ultimately, I think that all the shore trails could be fixed up that they can be ridden in the wet with no pooling water, and you don't ever need to ride over paved sections of rough uneven rock.
I don't think it's dumbing it down, I think it's bringing it back to a standard that is sustainable and enjoyable.

Also, while you're at it, can you fix the spelling on the trail sign ;)

We need more dorps to falt.

With that out of the way, I like Espresso, or at least I like the general routing of the trail. Agreed, it could use some sprucing up so if someone's sitting on a permit but not acting on it that's a huge fail.

I like Ladies' and pretty much all of the other trails on Fromme and I especially like that they all have something different to offer. Most important IMO is to make sure that each trail has a very different feel - variety is the spice of life. Need some fast flowy, slow techy, in between, lotsa stunts, super steeps and all on the ground trails.

Kn.

Executioner is in need of some love. Year after year the erosion is getting worse and the lines getting wider and wider as people avoid the worst of it.

Also the same thing is happening on Bookwus. Both of those trails could use some smart dedicated work to rebuild them now before they actually become a chunder mess.

I really like riding the top half of Espresso. After the big diving board to rock roll, the line needs work. The fall line chunder section immediately afterward is terrible, and beyond that the trail is not very well defined. I would vote for maintenance of the upper section, and a re-work of everything after the rock slab. And of course, the trail maintenance cock-block is lame if zero work is being done.

I think a rebuild / reroute of Espresso would be a great idea. There are some trails up there that are old school and great and shouldn't be updated, imo espresso isn't one of them. Its possibly my least fav trail on Fromme. Shirk has a good point about fixing a couple of the ones that aren't blown out yet.

I think some of the lines flow great yet some leave you wondering what the heck. The trail needs to be overhauled in some spots and just a buffing in other places. Some of the structures/features need to be fixed as they are true shore classics. Some features and structures need to be removed. This trail would totally benefit from the Diggers touch.

I would think the permit holder would welcome the attention his trail would get. If it was my trail I would welcome the helping hand.

I agree that work needs to move forward on this trail to take pressure off Ladies.