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How do you assess risk while moving through life?

June 10, 2020, 1:20 a.m.
Posts: 3154
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

While not direct Shore or bike context, there are some strong parallels to mtb'ing in the following article. So the thread question; how do you move through life? Do you stumble blindly, expecting others to pick up the pieces of your mishaps? Do you plan diligently, sometimes to the point of being obsessive about every little detail? Or are you usually somewhere in between, taking the experience and knowledge you've gained so far and applying it as best you can while understanding that there may be unseen risks which could cause you some injury? And most importantly, if something does go wrong, how much of it do you own? Where does your own level of responsibility lie?

Some activities it seems to make sense that the provider shoulders a certain level of responsibility and try to mitigate or even eliminate risk, say like at an amusement park for example. However, activities in nature always present risk, some seen and some unseen, even with seemingly low consequence activities. How much responsibility should someone who recreates in wild, untamed nature take on? Should government bodies hold some responsibility if one decides to wander off into the forest where there is no trail? What if you decide to get into the water on a river? Recent court rulings would seem to suggest that governments seem to be responsible for every square centimeter of the land they manage. So if one's spouse goes tubing on a river and they should unfortunately happen to die then the government bears some responsibility and needs to pay up. I don't think it's the government's job to protect me from my own lack of using critical thinking to assess an activity that could potentially kill me.

Decisions such as the one below could potentially have ramifications beyond signage on a river.

https://www.revelstokereview.com/news/b-c-ordered-to-pay-family-of-tubing-accident-victim-150000-as-case-drags-on/?fbclid=IwAR1eyg9PwPsRug8TygTWvC0S_Px_wMPRtvVTDA2Q0joUpUs74aPkT_lzNag

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

June 10, 2020, 7:33 a.m.
Posts: 425
Joined: Jan. 21, 2013

I'm pretty calculated about risk. There has to be a fairly high chance of success or I'd rethink what that activity is. I have two young kids and a wife that rely on me doing more than just being able to work to provide for them.

Reading that story and the prior one linked - while it's a sad tale, the background speaks for itself. Mid freshet river, older couple, visitor from overseas. What kind of warning signs would have prevented this? If there was a "Dangerous River Conditions" sign, would they have not gone on the tubing trip?

By the time I see a sign like that, I have either a) committed to what I am doing and will continue anyway, or b) the sign is confirming a clearly dangerous condition what I wouldn't have even thought about engaging in.

June 10, 2020, 7:33 a.m.
Posts: 18790
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

I don't think it's the government's job to protect me from my own lack of using critical thinking to assess an activity that could potentially kill me.

But when I’m dead, I don't have a say in what the lawyers want to do.

June 10, 2020, 7:57 a.m.
Posts: 11969
Joined: June 4, 2008

Pre-big accident, "Holy shit I am really good at everything I do."

Post-big accident, "Take it easy and the time will come when you're ready to do that."

As for financial risk, "Holy shit, I'm a financial wizard" to "Holy fuck, I lost how much?" to "Slow and steady wins the race."

I see a pattern here.

June 10, 2020, 12:04 p.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

This post for some reason reminds me in a big way of the family that tried to sue Strava. When a family member was killed trying to be the fastest rider on some segment in the states. It was thrown out of court.

We are all responsible for our actions. When it comes to risk I find driving an icy hwy to Revelstoke in a snowstorm probably the riskiest things one can do. People know the risk and they still do it. Would some signs stopped these people tubing? Think it's a lame argument.

June 10, 2020, 12:28 p.m.
Posts: 23
Joined: May 27, 2018

Not to detract from the general discussion but I wouldn't get too wound up about that court decision. What is not made clear in the article is that the court did not find the government liable to the claimants because of a failure to post warning signs. In fact the judge didn't make any determination at all about whether the government has an obligation to post signs or otherwise protect people using the river. That question would normally have been determined at trial but here, because the government wasn't abiding by court rules regarding disclosure of documents, the judge decided to punish the government for this procedural failure by striking their defence [judgment para 20] which did away with any need to consider whether the government was at fault and left the only issue for trial being how much compensation should be paid by the government. It is a one-off case specific to its' unique facts and doesn't create a precedent regarding government liability.

June 11, 2020, 10:09 a.m.
Posts: 468
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

I don't expect anyone to protect me from my own bad decisions when doing outdoor activities. I would rather live in a world without signs, fences, or litigation and accept the consequences of my own judgement.  Having said that, I very much appreciate the dedicated volunteers at  NS Rescue!

June 11, 2020, 10:49 a.m.
Posts: 3154
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: HulaOtter

What is not made clear in the article is that the court did not find the government liable to the claimants ... the government wasn't abiding by court rules regarding disclosure of documents, the judge decided to punish the government for this procedural failure

The article does address That issue, but I purposely left it out because I think it’s absurd that a claim like this should even make it to court.

June 11, 2020, 2:14 p.m.
Posts: 2124
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

Individual responsibility is one of the things that makes Canada great, in contrast to the litigious society of the US.

Personally I get to a risk point where I just can't calculate the outcomes accurately, it's then that I make the jump of faith...that has landed me in the hospital with stitches, shattered bones, dislocated limbs, etc. 

But, fuck no I've never entertained the thought that is was somebody's else's fault other than my own. Regardless of signage or peer warnings or odds or basic common sense lol.

June 11, 2020, 3:32 p.m.
Posts: 1107
Joined: Feb. 5, 2011

I'm actually quite shocked that a lot of things at Whistler operate the way they do - both the bike park and skiing. Like how the heck are the Crapapple jumps as big as they are? At least those are pretty well marked as Pro Lines so you aren't really just going to accidentally stumble upon them. For skiing though, there are tons of unmarked cliffs and other hazards in the alpine. I for sure take responsibility for my own actions and the risk that goes along with it, but I can also see how others could get themselves into big trouble without realizing it. It's great that they allow you to do all that sort of stuff at Whistler, but I'm also surprised that they allow random tourists to venture into those more extreme areas that aren't always well signed.


 Last edited by: Bull_Dozer on June 11, 2020, 3:33 p.m., edited 1 time in total.

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