horses on Camp Brick singletrack

dammm camp brick is fun stuff

yes. it's just Camp Brick and you may scoff at it and say who cares. But the fact is the school kids use it for their XC races and it's one of the only areas on the NS thats suitable for them. We're only talking about 2 short sections of single track. The kids get in there and do the maintenance with NSMBA guys. All the other dirt paths and so forth in the area are shared with the equesdtrians and the equestrians get sole use of all the trails on the other side of the road. It's not too much to ask them not to use the 2 mtb single tracks.

These kids are the future of the sport.

That particular piece of trail was not built by the horse folk nor the one above it. There are some around there on the west side of the road which are horse trails. Wide and bark mulchy. Horse trails require a softer resiliant surface to stand up to shod hooves. Hikers need steps on steepest slopes and bike riders need armoured pave for the steep bits. All need bridges over marshes and creeks of any significance.

So much of this stuff is pretty straightforward and simple common sense. The problem is people make groundless arguments based on emotions. Then you need scientific studies, strategic alpine plans and crap like that. I meen come on, it's a god damn no brainer. People parking at the top of Mountain Hwy making asses of themselves and disturbing resisdents? Every one knows the only proper answer is a god damn parking area past the gate up to the water toxers. Make the road wide enough to accomodate angle parking and retain resident only status in front of residences and be done with it. All these studies and crap is mostly, not entirely but mostly a waste of time and resources.

Fact: mountain biking will not go away because a very small minority of frog huggers are displeased with it. There are too many of us, we pay taxes we support local businesses.

Fact: we share the space with the rest of the community so we do have to live with each other and 99% of all of us do. There are only a small number of cry babies who can't play with others.

Fact: parking in front of residences by non residents will always be an issue so there must be suitable parking for users of any damn public recreational facility, indeed stores and other working buildings like offices and hospitals need employee and visitor parking.

Fact: all trail users impact the trail surfaces and wear them out, some more than others. It's been shown in a number of studies that mountain bikes and hikers have very similar impacts. There's more of us so we riders cause more wear as a group. We also do considerable work to fix what we break. Hikers used to that stuff, but hikers have been replaced by riders to a large extent. If there were no mountainbikers, there would be more hikers but probably not close to the same numbers. Riding is simply much more fun than hiking in this day and age of extremeness.

Fact: the North Shore is NOT wilderness. It's at the margin a a very large City. And probably 95% second growth. I cringe evertime some stinkin hippy refers to it as pristeen. I have seen pristine first hand as a former geologist. That ain't pristine. You can hear and smell the city just about anywhere we ride regularly. The wildlife is pretty much used to us. Coyotes and Racoons, skunks and bears all frequent the city. Whether we ride there or not will not change that a bit.

Sorry. Three coffees and a really bad week at work will do this to a guy.

this is how I feel all the time.^^^

That particular piece of trail was not built by the horse folk nor the one above it. There are some around there on the west side of the road which are horse trails. Wide and bark mulchy. Horse trails require a softer resiliant surface to stand up to shod hooves. Hikers need steps on steepest slopes and bike riders need armoured pave for the steep bits. All need bridges over marshes and creeks of any significance.

So much of this stuff is pretty straightforward and simple common sense. The problem is people make groundless arguments based on emotions. Then you need scientific studies, strategic alpine plans and crap like that. I meen come on, it's a god damn no brainer. People parking at the top of Mountain Hwy making asses of themselves and disturbing resisdents? Every one knows the only proper answer is a god damn parking area past the gate up to the water toxers. Make the road wide enough to accomodate angle parking and retain resident only status in front of residences and be done with it. All these studies and crap is mostly, not entirely but mostly a waste of time and resources.

Fact: mountain biking will not go away because a very small minority of frog huggers are displeased with it. There are too many of us, we pay taxes we support local businesses.

Fact: we share the space with the rest of the community so we do have to live with each other and 99% of all of us do. There are only a small number of cry babies who can't play with others.

Fact: parking in front of residences by non residents will always be an issue so there must be suitable parking for users of any damn public recreational facility, indeed stores and other working buildings like offices and hospitals need employee and visitor parking.

Fact: all trail users impact the trail surfaces and wear them out, some more than others. It's been shown in a number of studies that mountain bikes and hikers have very similar impacts. There's more of us so we riders cause more wear as a group. We also do considerable work to fix what we break. Hikers used to that stuff, but hikers have been replaced by riders to a large extent. If there were no mountainbikers, there would be more hikers but probably not close to the same numbers. Riding is simply much more fun than hiking in this day and age of extremeness.

Fact: the North Shore is NOT wilderness. It's at the margin a a very large City. And probably 95% second growth. I cringe evertime some stinkin hippy refers to it as pristeen. I have seen pristine first hand as a former geologist. That ain't pristine. You can hear and smell the city just about anywhere we ride regularly. The wildlife is pretty much used to us. Coyotes and Racoons, skunks and bears all frequent the city. Whether we ride there or not will not change that a bit.

Sorry. Three coffees and a really bad week at work will do this to a guy.

Thank you kind sir for seeing the rational thought in all the madness. As you say it is common sense, I have always thought this about the Shore and I don't even live there and have barely ridden there, but been out in BC for the last 6years, just take a step back and see the Shore from the city and its simple to me, 3 ski areas sandwiching the forest below til the houses start, there are 3 roads that travel up those slopes, doesn't take a genious to figure most will venture into that area to see what is happening in the supposed wilderness, its glorified park land, conflict is gonna happen, hopefully ya'll can get a grip and get along…I can see it happening.

do you ride there? it is some of the few XC on the shore. to compare it to Seymour, Fromme, Cypress and now a bike park at Cypress shows that you haven't ridden it.

I have ridden all over there for the last 10 years. I lived near Cap College for 5 years and rode it regularly then. I occasionally join a riding group who meet in LSCR parking lot every Sunday morning at 9 am.

what a surprise… the people who don't regularly ride it don't give a shit and take the supossed high road…

Say what you want about "the high road" … if you still think that open hostility to other users of public land is the better alternative, you have missed my point.

There is a fair amount of XC riding on the North Shore (granted some of it is steep - but the last time I checked, this sport was still called "Mountain" Biking). Some XC trails on the North Shore I have ridden over the years that still exist (some I have ridden have no names, some have names I can't remember, some no longer exist. Of course, there are also North Shore XC trails I have never ridden. ):

Seymour/LSCR : Old Buck, Bridle, Mystery Creek, Hyannis, Jack Thompson (Figure 8), Fisherman's, Ridge runner, Bottletop, Neds, Corkscrew, Seymour Powerlines, Incline, Baden Powell, Camp brick, Lillooet Trail (other side of Lilloet road from Camp Brick)

Fromme: 7th-Leppard-Kirkford-Krinkum-Krankum,Griffin, King of the Shore, Another Roadside attraction, Bobsled,St Georges, Baden-Powell, Mountain Highway, Mosquito Creek area

Cypress: BLT, Brother's Creek, Stupid Grouse, Forks, Powerline Trail, Paul Hogan, Moose is Loose, Blind Skier

Don't limit yourself to the North Shore. There are other XC trails within striking distance. You can ride or drive to Burnaby Mountain and ride there. You can ride or drive to Horseshoe Bay, hop on a ferry, enjoy a muffin and then unload onto over 100 km of singletrack on the Sunshine Coast. D.

Andy, you are a brilliant man.

thx for pointing out the obvious XC Duncs.

you pretty much proved my point that losing the LSCR xc to horses would really take away from the XC on the shore…

We who live in glass houses just can't afford to be hucking rocks around. Period.

Some XC trails on the North Shore I have ridden over the years that still exist (some I have ridden have no names, some have names I can't remember, some no longer exist. Of course, there are also North Shore XC trails I have never ridden. ):

Seymour/LSCR : Old Buck, Bridle, Mystery Creek, Hyannis, Jack Thompson (Figure 8), Fisherman's, Ridge runner, Bottletop, Neds, Corkscrew, Seymour Powerlines, Incline, Baden Powell, Camp brick, Lillooet Trail (other side of Lilloet road from Camp Brick)

Fromme: 7th-Leppard-Kirkford-Krinkum-Krankum,Griffin, King of the Shore, Another Roadside attraction, Bobsled,St Georges, Baden-Powell, Mountain Highway, Mosquito Creek area

Cypress: BLT, Brother's Creek, Stupid Grouse, Forks, Powerline Trail, Paul Hogan, Moose is Loose, Blind Skier

Don't limit yourself to the North Shore. There are other XC trails within striking distance. You can ride or drive to Burnaby Mountain and ride there. You can ride or drive to Horseshoe Bay, hop on a ferry, enjoy a muffin and then unload onto over 100 km of singletrack on the Sunshine Coast. D.

Corkscrew - def not xc
Inlcine - not xc and not mtb at all, hiking only

Corkscrew - def not xc
Inlcine - not xc and not mtb at all, hiking only

I would say Corkscrew is XC because it was an established bike trail before anybody ever rode a FS bike down it.All the skinny lines and stunts (except the A-frame) are relatively recent. Also, my 6-year-old has ridden down Corkscrew on essentially a fixed gear BMX bike, but given his recent progression, that may not help my argument.

About Incline, I didn't know its official status and little else other than it not steep or technically challenging (last time I went by it, people were bombing down in on DH bikes in full face helmets and armour). D.

if corkscrew = xc

then camp brick trails = gravel 10ft poodle paths

if corkscrew = xc

then camp brick trails = gravel 10ft poodle paths

You know what, Statix? You're right. In fact, XC riders have no business being on a FR/DH trail.

I should have known that all those years ago when I was riding corkscrew on my Kona Kiluea with Project 2 forks, Joe Murray bar ends and wearing a lime-green day-glo MEC jacket. (I swear I always wanted a pair of Brodie Switchblade forks, but could never afford them - maybe that makes my tresspass a little more forgiveable).

I should have known that when I rode it on my XC bike to rehab my knee after arthroscopic surgery.

I should have known that when I rode it two weeks ago with my 6-year old son with his singlespeed with 16" wheels.

XC riders need to stick to XC trails. Thanks for showing me the benefits of an open mind. D.

has anyone raised the issue with the stables - NSEC?
I know someone who works there if it would help?

You know what, Statix? You're right. In fact, XC riders have no business being on a FR/DH trail.

I should have known that all those years ago when I was riding corkscrew on my Kona Kiluea with Project 2 forks, Joe Murray bar ends and wearing a lime-green day-glo MEC jacket. (I swear I always wanted a pair of Brodie Switchblade forks, but could never afford them - maybe that makes my tresspass a little more forgiveable).

I should have known that when I rode it on my XC bike to rehab my knee after arthroscopic surgery.

I should have known that when I rode it two weeks ago with my 6-year old son with his singlespeed with 16" wheels.

XC riders need to stick to XC trails. Thanks for showing me the benefits of an open mind. D.

if it's a pissing contest you want … meh, i used to ride corkscrew and all the stunts on a fully rigid. still does not make it xc … unless you are on glue.

if it's a pissing contest you want … meh, i used to ride corkscrew and all the stunts on a fully rigid. still does not make it xc … unless you are on glue.

Cool - I don't ride any of the stunts except the A-frame on my XC bike. D.